GliderIreland - Ireland RC Forum - Flying Model forum in Ireland

Gliders => Scale => Topic started by: Peter on January 16, 2010, 16:59:19 PM

Title: ASW 20
Post by: Peter on January 16, 2010, 16:59:19 PM
Here's some pictures of an ASW 20 build from a Mike Trew plan - a stable mate for the Pilatus B4.  Another planked fuselage!  So far so good.  

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/ASW20%20004small2.jpg)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/ASW20%20005small2.jpg)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/ASW20%20015small2.jpg)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/ASW20%20023small2.jpg)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/ASW20%20027small2.jpg)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/ASW20%20037small2.jpg)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/ASW20%20038small2.jpg)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/ASW20%20044small2.jpg)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/ASW20%20057small2.jpg)
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Happy Days on January 16, 2010, 18:59:14 PM
Meticulous work Peter, well done. :clap:

I admire your tenacity. Thanks for letting us see your handy work in progress

One question,……your workshop doesn’t look like a greenhouse. So why is there a max/min thermometer in the first picture???  :lol:
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Alan_Perse on January 17, 2010, 11:59:59 AM
Looks great Peter. How long did it take you to get that far?
Title: ASW 20
Post by: joe on January 17, 2010, 20:26:37 PM
Nice work Peter. Another fine addition to your scale hanger. Should look good along side the Pilatus.
Title: ASW 20
Post by: orionis on January 26, 2010, 18:07:56 PM
Hello,
Peter's pictures made me feel like building this glider.
I've emailed and faxed Traplet and asked some questions but I received no answer yet.
I've been told the their postal delays are quite long; maybe someone who own this plan could make a copy out of it?
Please feel free to PM me if you are agree or know another way to buy this plan.
Fabrice
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Peter on January 26, 2010, 20:24:23 PM
Hello Fabrice,

I bought a canopy from Traplet last year and it worked out OK.  Hopefully they will respond to you.  If not - post again.  If you start a build - put  some pictures on the forum.  It would be interesting to compare notes!  Good luck!

Keith - my work area is on a return attic landing with an overhead Velux window and no heating - its boiling in the summer and freezing in winter - hence the max/min themometer! Started this build straight after Christmas - although I had been doing some fret sawing for about a month before - targeted two formers a day!
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Alan_Perse on January 26, 2010, 20:53:29 PM
Hi Peter. Do you build the second half of the fuselage onto the first half, or do you build them separately and join them later?
Title: ASW 20
Post by: orionis on January 27, 2010, 08:04:43 AM
Thanks for your answer Peter.
I'll surely post pictures of my building, but it won't be before a while, I have a lot of other building projects to be achieved before this one!
However, I'll follow your own building very carefully.
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Steve650 on February 12, 2010, 08:26:10 AM
Keep up the great work Peter. Any more photos yet.? 'm building the same plan here in Australia, but I'm doing the 19 version.. Im nearly at the same stage as you, however I've built mine as 2 seperate halves, and am about to plank the fuz.
Cheers Steve
Title: ASW 20
Post by: orionis on February 12, 2010, 08:33:06 AM
Hi Steve,
When I'll begin my own building, this post will be an international asw 19-20 building post!  :wink:
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Steve650 on February 13, 2010, 03:00:33 AM
Hi Fabrice, an international build group..what fun!! I'm just about to head out to get some supplies to start planking up my fuse now. Hopefully some more pictures soon when I get it done.
Cheers Steve :D
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Peter on February 14, 2010, 14:04:26 PM
Good to hear of those other ASW 19/20 builds going on out there.  Here are some more pictures of progress with mine.  I built directly onto the planked first half of the fuselage - I find it easier to install the controls, particualrly in the tail - doing it this way.  

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/P1010100small.jpg)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/P1010103small.jpg)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/P1010109small.jpg)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/P1010116small.jpg)
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/P1010114small.jpg)
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/P1010111small.jpg)
Title: ASW 20
Post by: orionis on February 14, 2010, 14:35:19 PM
Thanks very much for your pictures Peter, they will be very helpfull when I start my own building.
Did you choose which version you're building, 19 or 20? The only difference between the two versions is the flaps, is that correct?
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Steve650 on February 17, 2010, 08:27:56 AM
I wish I'd seen the pics a bit earlier Fabrice! Ive built my fuselage in 2 halves :x  Not to worry, hopefullt it will all work out to the good. Im planning on trying to run the elevator servo in the tail, probably something like a HS82MG, and pull-pull rudder.
I'm doing the 19 version which the RAF had called the Valiant T1(??) There were only 6 built for them, so hopefully I can do it justice.
Cheers Steve
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Alan_Perse on November 12, 2010, 17:29:48 PM
Hi Peter.

How is the ASW 20 coming along?
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Peter on November 14, 2010, 11:47:20 AM
ASW progressing slowly - working on the wings at present - still on the first panel and ground to a halt for want of some decent 1.5 mm balsa for the skins - last batch of balsa I got from the UK was both expensive and poor quality.  Anyone any suggestions - Fred you had some nice stuff - where did you source that?

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/P1010128small.jpg)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/P1010133small.jpg)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/P1010122small.jpg)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/P1010124small.jpg)
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Alan_Perse on November 14, 2010, 11:50:31 AM
Looking good. Did you change the aerofoil like you did with the Pilatus. By the way how well does your Pilatus fly on the HQ 2.5?
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Peter on May 12, 2013, 19:24:31 PM
And eventually... it's almost ready to go! Just some wiring to sort out internally and some lead to go in the nose.

 (http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/ASW20small.jpg)[/img]
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Alan_Perse on May 12, 2013, 20:51:37 PM
Wonderful job Peter. Looking forward to seeing it at the next Fly-In.
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Happy Days on May 15, 2013, 09:07:05 AM
An immaculate looking job :D …..well done Peter! :clap:  :clap:  Now come the questions. :?:

1/ Have you the courage to launch it?
2/ When?

I think if I’d put three years work into a project I’d build a glass case around it and spend an eternity just looking at it! :lol:

Keith.
Title: ASW 20
Post by: JohnPearson on May 20, 2013, 21:15:03 PM
Nice job Peter, looks fantastic  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Peter on May 20, 2013, 22:57:06 PM
Thanks everyone.  As always - Keith asks the pertinent questions...! I am determined to get it airborne this summer so I can get on to the next project.
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Roy on March 29, 2014, 08:40:41 AM
Hi, just starting my first scale build (mike trew cirrus 3m) just wondering how you finished your fusalage after planking. Its a  big step up from building kits like Bird of time etc where you get detailed plans and instuctions. Going to keep close to the plan as poss, maybe only changing servo instal. to wings.
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Fred on March 29, 2014, 10:02:48 AM
Hi Roy,

Welcome to the forum  :D
I leave Peter to answer your question, and the way he did it on his ASW20
 :D

The Cirrus plan is from the 80s I believe right?  :?:  I see what you mean for the servo install, that certainly used bellcranks in the wings etc etc  :?:
Title: ASW 20
Post by: orionis on March 29, 2014, 10:05:33 AM
I'm also interested in the answer, as the ASW20's plan is on my to-do list...  :)
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Peter on March 29, 2014, 21:25:01 PM
Hi Roy,

The first Mike Trew plan I built from was a Pilatus and I went for film covering on the fuselage - not entirely successful as the fuselage shape is quite complex and hard to get the film on neatly without having too many joins.  Hence on the ASW I went for a paint finish - I glassed the front end and then spent quite a lot of time filling and sanding before applying an undercoat and then several spray coats of paint, sanding lightly between coats. I just used a commercially available spray can.  Make sure whatever glue you use for the planks can be sanded easily - otherwise it may be quite hard to get a smooth surface - I used Resin W. Result - still some imperfections but it is a home crafted model and has not popped out of a mold so I am not too worried!  Yet to fly it - thwarted by a combination of weather and work.  

Best of luck with your build - certainly there is a lot of effort in a planked fuselage but good to have a project like this on the go and the end result is quite satisfying.

Peter
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Roy on March 30, 2014, 07:10:57 AM
Thanks Peter, Glass sounds the way to go.
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Roy on April 14, 2014, 03:24:52 AM
Peter have you built your glider as light as poss.?  Im just debating whether to fit a retract wheel, it would add about 220gms to build weight and make it a little harder to fit everything in.
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Peter on May 17, 2014, 22:47:23 PM
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Peter/ASW20firstflightsmall.jpg)

First flight of the ASW20 today at Killakee. Here it is is back on the ground in one piece.  A little on the windy side 30 kph+ for a test flight but it seemed to go well -  landing a little hairy but survived with just the rudder horn pulled out after digging a wing in.
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Happy Days on May 18, 2014, 06:44:47 AM
Well done Peter!  :clap:  :clap:

Four years in the making but you got there eventually, so a big pat on the back for you. Must be very exciting flying her for the first time after all that work. I always say it’s good to feel your heart beating in your chest :D …..you know you’re alive. :wink:

So what’s the next project? A full house wing for the Phase 6 perhaps? 8)

L. Keith
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Alan_Perse on May 18, 2014, 07:54:43 AM
Great work Peter.
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Fred on May 19, 2014, 10:59:13 AM
Congratulations again on the first flight Peter  :clap:  :clap:
Title: Slowly getting there
Post by: Roy on June 06, 2014, 22:08:07 PM
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Roy/gliderfuse2.JPG)
Title: ASW 20
Post by: brian245 on June 06, 2014, 22:28:46 PM
Roy, that looks good.
Did you build from scratch or from the Traplett wood kit?
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Roy on June 06, 2014, 23:22:13 PM
Just had the plan, did inquire about a wood kit before i started building but at that stage they didnt do one, I think that they do have one now as well as a few others.
Title: ASW 20
Post by: alibodin on July 12, 2014, 20:16:44 PM
Traplet do short kits for the ASW 19/20. I am currently building the Skyark 2 from the Traplet plan and short kit. The short kit is very good, all formers and ribs. I also have the sort kit for the Mike Trew Pilatus B4 and it looks good as well.

Alistair
Title: ASW19-20
Post by: Rasmussen on August 18, 2014, 13:49:22 PM
Hello Peter.

VERY nice Building of the ASW :D And congratulation with your first flight.

I have just bought a complete kit(plan,short wood kit+canopy) from Traplet. It worked out very well. Now after seeing all you good photo`s and the "ship"is flying, I am keen to get started building.

    :clap:
And to you good fellow ASW builders. Thanks for your input.Hope I´ll be able to contribute as the Building is going along.

Best regards Joern Rasmussen
Denmark
Title: ASW19/20
Post by: Rasmussen on August 19, 2014, 20:29:34 PM
Hello.

I Wonder if some of you know what the aerofoil is:name/type? It looks different from what I saw way back.

It is my first scale glider and only my second project after more than 30 years brake from aeromoddeling.
I had done 20years with C/L and freeflight gliders so this RC scale gliders is a whole new world, allmost, and very exciting.  
   :?:  :)
Joern
Title: ASW 20
Post by: alibodin on August 19, 2014, 20:39:40 PM
Joern

I have the same kit from Traplet. I do not know what the airfoil is sorry.

Was your canopy black on the plan? I think there is information there on how to build the canopy frame. I will enquire of Traplet and see what they say.

Alistair
Title: ASW 19/20
Post by: Rasmussen on August 20, 2014, 20:08:22 PM
Hi.

The canopy from Traplet is clear and very nice. It has to be cut when fitting to the frame as per pland.
Cheers Joern
Title: ASW 20
Post by: alibodin on August 20, 2014, 23:23:22 PM
My canopy is also clear. On the plan it is black and there is information in the canopy area that I can not read.

Anyone got an old copy of the plan with the detail in the canopy area?

Alistair
Title: Re: ASW19/20
Post by: Fred on August 27, 2014, 16:58:13 PM
Quote from: "Rasmussen"
Hello.

I Wonder if some of you know what the aerofoil is:name/type? It looks different from what I saw way back.


   :?:  :)
Joern


Hi Joern,

Welcome to the forum  :D

I can't really answer your question (cannot find any info), but seeing the age of the plan, I would bet on an Eppler, the 2 series.
Might worth to be compared with a E203, E210 and the like as they were very popular at the time (and still are, my ASH 25 uses one of the Eppler 201 - 203 combination).

After that, maybe a HQ? :?:
Title: ASW 19
Post by: Rasmussen on August 30, 2014, 14:54:12 PM
Hi Fred.

Thank you very much.

I will look up the profile data`s. It really does`nt matter but I am just curious.
When you say age of the plan, how old do you think it is?, can`t se any year/dates.

cheers Joern

  :D
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Fred on September 01, 2014, 07:47:54 AM
Hi Joern,

I think the plan is a good 20 years old. If someone can confirm  :D
Title: ASW 20
Post by: Peter on September 01, 2014, 22:23:14 PM
Hi Joern & Alistair,

Are you both building the Mike Trew version?  This plan must be over 30 years old. The canopy area on my plan is grey(!) rather than black and the text on it reads '1/8 plywood or paxolin canopy frame' - I made mine from plywood.  The airfoil I suspect is a scale one - I'm not sure what it is. There are certainly more efficient sections for models around but it flew fine on the slope.  It looks a similar section to on Roy's Cirrus. Good luck with your builds and post some pictures.  I've just started on a Slingsby Gull Mk 1 from the Paul Dean plan - endless fret sawing but formers are now cut. Will start a separate thread once it begins to take shape.

Peter
Title: ASW 19
Post by: Rasmussen on September 02, 2014, 21:18:46 PM
Hi Peter.

Thank you for your info.

Yes we are both building Mike Trew`s ASW 19 but mine will have an electric motor in the nose "instead of lead". No flaps or wheel. I am flying from flat fields and often alone.
I am working on both fuslage halfs and have not yet started on wings.

Cheers Joern

 :D
Title: ASW 20
Post by: alibodin on September 02, 2014, 22:18:07 PM
Mine is the 20, flaps no wheel, started on a wing.

Traplet kit is pretty good, one part is wrong which is wrong on the plan. One has to cut ones own dihedral wedges, apart from that all fiddly bits are done. All ribs formers, tailplane ribs and rudder ribs all done.

Alistair
Title: ASW 20
Post by: orionis on September 03, 2014, 05:59:01 AM
Feel free to post pictures of your own building, as this glider is the next of my to-do list!
Title: ASW 20
Post by: alibodin on September 13, 2014, 22:46:19 PM
It has taken a while and my first ever planked half fuz is done.

No where near perfect, however it is straight and it looks right.

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/alibodin/Fuz%20LHS%20planked%20small.JPG)

Next challenge is add the other half to the first half and then make it all smooth.

I have a plan to make it smooth adding 1/32 inch sheeting over the current planking  as it can be added in long wide strips.

Alistair
Title: ASW 20
Post by: brian245 on July 10, 2015, 09:06:57 AM
I have just received my plan for this and looking over it, the main spar seems a bit fragile compared to my prievous builds.
Have other builders built 'as per plan'and found it satisfactory?
Any comments appreciated.
One other question, what method of wing retention have you used?
Title: ASW 20
Post by: alibodin on July 11, 2015, 20:44:27 PM
Hi Brian,

I am still building my ASW20. The wing structure looks fine to me. Mike Trew is a competent designer. Peter and Joern on here have both built and flown the model and not heard of any mishaps.

For wing retention I plan to use white electrical tap wrapped round the root of the wing and the fairing of the fuz. Used it on scale models in the past and it is very reliable.

Alistair
Title: ASW 20
Post by: brian245 on July 11, 2015, 21:21:30 PM
Hi Alistair,
Thank you for your comments, tape was one idea I had considered and is probably the most simple
Title: ASW 20
Post by: alibodin on August 31, 2015, 21:27:03 PM
Well after nearly a year I finished my ASW 20, thanks to Joern for the encouragement.

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/alibodin/AB%20ASW20.JPG)

Now on with the Pilatus B4,

Alistair
Title: Re: ASW 20
Post by: Andrew101 on April 26, 2020, 08:26:17 AM
Hello All,

Anyone still available to talk about the ASW 19/20?

I've picked up a laser cut kit but tbh don't have a clue what I'm doing!

Many thanks Andrew.
Title: Re: ASW 20
Post by: Peter on April 26, 2020, 20:46:07 PM
Yes -  still here Andrew!

Peter
Title: Re: ASW 20
Post by: Andrew101 on April 27, 2020, 08:28:35 AM
Ah hello Peter,

Great job on your build, how are you and the glider getting on ?

I'm just waiting on plans to have a good look at, then will be ordering  the relevant supplies. Main issue for myself is that this will be my 1st kit and 1st plane! I have a fair amount of experience with helicopters, but zero fixed wing.

I'd also like to go with a powered version.

Any help welcome 😊

Order of steps for powered glider?
Supplies/tools needed?
Suggestions for electronics and Spektrum RX ?

Thank you.
Title: Re: ASW 20
Post by: Peter on April 27, 2020, 22:36:01 PM
I would say this may not be the best place to start for a first build as it is a rather complex project and it might be easy to get disheartened.  Probably a good idea to cut your teeth on a simpler project and get some traditional building (and fixed wing flying) experience before getting stuck into this one.  I had built about 10 gliders (including some from plans only) before tackling the ASW20 and even then some bits were challenging - took me ages to get those spoilers to work. There are good electric RES glider kits out there now with useful build logs on the web to follow that would probably be an easier and more satisfying place to start.  Others may have additional advice in this regard.  I'm afraid I can't help with the power option as I just build and fly unpowered gliders.  Anway see what you think when you get the plans.

All the best,
Peter
Title: Re: ASW 20
Post by: Andrew101 on April 28, 2020, 08:33:22 AM
Hi Peter,

Yes I realise I'm definitely in way over my head. The plans haven't arrived yet but was going to attempt the build anyway for the learning process and let it take as long as needed. But you're right I'll probably try and sell off the kit, canopy and plans and buy 2nd hand. Maybe have a go in a few years.

Thank you Andrew 😊
Title: Re: ASW 20
Post by: rogallo on April 28, 2020, 09:20:50 AM
Welcome Andrew,
  Andrew Boyle from the phone call by any chance?

 https://www.hoelleinshop.com/Planes-Helicopters-Quadcopters/Planes/Electric-gliders/Multiplex/EasyGlider-4-KIT-Version-Spw-1800mm-Multiplex-214332.htm?shop=hoellein_e&SessionId=&a=article&ProdNr=M214332&t=49301&c=12333&p=12333

is a good model to learn to fly with, this is the electric version. It requires 3 servos and the motor kit (listed in the accs tab) and a few leads etc. Are you already using Spektrum radio ? Is it DSM2 as you can no longer buy receivers for this any more.

Also requires is a battery an a bottle of glue and a radio set. Assuming you have a radio should cost about 250 euro.

Regards

Ralph

Title: Re: ASW 20
Post by: Andrew101 on April 28, 2020, 11:43:58 AM
Hi Ralph,

Sorry that wasn't me.

I've been flying Heli's for 10 years on and off, can fly inverted circuits etc and just about manage piro flips. I have a trex 700L V2 and Sab Goblin 570 running a Spektrum DX9 using DSMX.

I'm not too keen on buying something that I may want to replace quickly. Long term goal is to fly a mid scale acro powered glider.

This was an impulse buy that I'd be happy to try and start, see how I get along and seek advice along the way. But think I'll just buy a ready to fly or ARTF. Don't really want to buy something that I would want to replace quickly though.

Thanks Andrew.
Title: Re: ASW 20
Post by: rogallo on April 28, 2020, 12:06:35 PM
Okay, silly questions, can you fly model planes? What sort of flying do you want to do? Scale, aerobatic, hotliner? Where are you based? Gives us and idea of your needs.

Ralph
Title: Re: ASW 20
Post by: rogallo on April 28, 2020, 12:12:13 PM
https://www.hoelleinshop.com/Planes-Helicopters-Quadcopters/Planes/Electric-gliders/Multiplex/M264334-FunRay-RR-allround-model-glider-wingspan-2000mm-Multiplex-264334.htm?shop=hoellein_e&SessionId=&a=article&ProdNr=M264334&t=49301&c=12333&p=12333

https://www.hoelleinshop.com/Planes-Helicopters-Quadcopters/Planes/Electric-gliders/Multiplex/M264276-HERON-RR-ELAPOR-4-flap-wing-264276-special-price-as-long-as-on-stock.htm?shop=hoellein_e&SessionId=&a=article&ProdNr=M264276&t=49301&c=12333&p=12333

https://www.hoelleinshop.com/Planes-Helicopters-Quadcopters/Planes/Electric-gliders/Multiplex/SOLIUS-RR-Ready-for-Radio-aus-ELAPOR-Multiplex-264264.htm?shop=hoellein_e&SessionId=&a=article&ProdNr=M264264&t=49301&c=12333&p=12333

3 models which are suited to someone who can fly, even sort of and will give you the chance to fly some mild aerobatics, the Funray is the most advanced of the lot and would only suggest if you can already fly planes.

Hope this helps

Ralph
Title: Re: ASW 20
Post by: Happy Days on April 28, 2020, 15:46:33 PM
Just wondering if it might be best to 'borrow' a glider Andrew and see how you get on with flying fixed wing. (Perhaps with buddy box if you'd prefer.) That would enable you to asses your present flying abilities and decide what to buy for yourself.

Where abouts are you?

Keith
Title: Re: ASW 20
Post by: Andrew101 on April 28, 2020, 17:15:38 PM
Hi All,

Thanks for your replies, some more info...

No previous flights with fixed wing, only sim time.
Am interested in scale/acro, retractable edf acrobatic models in particular. The ASW kit was an impulse buy and was going to purchase, or use an FMS Fox 3m to learn with until it was ready.

I live in Cambridge, UK which is flat with a few small hills. Avg wind speed 11mph mostly from the west per annum.

Thanks again Andrew.
Title: Re: ASW 20
Post by: Flamingo Flier on April 28, 2020, 18:37:05 PM
Hi Andrew,
If you want an elegant and aerobatic sailplane a 3m Alpina might fit the bill.
I think they are still available and  in an electric version. The entire Alpina range has always been good kits and good fliers though probably more so when supplied by Multiplex.
Title: Re: ASW 20
Post by: Andrew101 on April 28, 2020, 18:57:22 PM
Hi Andrew,
If you want an elegant and aerobatic sailplane a 3m Alpina might fit the bill.
I think they are still available and  in an electric version. The entire Alpina range has always been good kits and good fliers though probably more so when supplied by Multiplex.

Thank you, I did see these on FB that do look very nice indeed!
Alpina in 4m and Antaris in 3.3m.
Maybe something worth waiting for 😊
Title: Re: ASW 20
Post by: Flamingo Flier on April 28, 2020, 20:25:22 PM
I think the 3m Alpina is still available. Try Tangent models.
I think the 3m would be a better option - the 4 m one is heavy and more difficult to land. I have the 4m and I would recommend the 3m. The 4 m is a fine flier but difficult to launch on your own and as I say not the easiest to land. It covers a lot of ground quickly!