GliderIreland - Ireland RC Forum - Flying Model forum in Ireland
Planes => Park Flyers / Foamies => Topic started by: skyhawk newbie on October 22, 2010, 12:16:28 PM
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I'm new here and new to flying powered gliders ,
so if this is in the wrong section sorry..
What I have is a ...4Ch TW-742 SkyHawk Aerobatic Glider...
has 9.6v 1100mAh battery.
Now I wana Mod this glider just a bit... :lol:
By fitting a brushlees motor (TowerPro BM2408-21T + 18A ESC combo)
with 8x4 prop...
Now I've been reading ( http://www.dmitrynizh.com/tw742.htm )
and to get the best out of a brushlees motor, I need to get Li-Po Batteries....Of which I know nothing about.....
So what I wana know is whats the best size Li-Po's / charger
and any other info for a newbie...
Regards Sean
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Sean,
There's any number of power systems you could put in a plane like that. To choose a suitable one there's a few more pieces of info needed.
What's your flying experience and how do you want to fly the plane?
As a powered glider (power up and spend most of your time with the motor off), as a basic trainer (flying around at moderate speed with occasional mild aerobatics), sport plane (a little of everything including some speed and aerobatics) or something else.
How much do you want to spend?
There is very cheap equipment around now which typically perform pretty well but if you're able to spend a bit more it does open up more options.
The critical thing with electric flight is that the batteries, motor and prop are all interlinked. If any of these 3 components aren't suited to the others for that application the performance will be disappointing.
Aidan
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Here’s a thought, Skyhawk. :?:
If you have already brought a TW-742, (and I susspect you have :) ) don’t fit any motor at all! :shock: Just fly it as a fully fledged slope soarer. :clap: All the time the wind is hitting the side of the slope you will have FREE lift. Fly all day if you want to! 8)
(By not carrying the weight of a big flight battery the plane is lighter and will be easier to keep in the air. :D )
Most of the slope soarers I know, including myself, don’t use power systems in our gliders. We let the wind do the work!
Keith
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Thanks for replys...
Yeah ..I've allready got one ,,got it last week.....
then Ordered another 2 , So I've got 3 TW-742 SkyHawks ,,,,
( Cheaper to buy the whole glider then the spares )
Glider 1
This is my Trainer glider,as I've allready crashed it....
Glider 2
Christ. . I'm defo keeping one as a slope soarer
Glider 3 this will be my fully Moded Glider.....
I want as a sport plane (a little of everything including some speed and aerobatics) Thanks Aidan.....
Ordered from Hobby King...
TowerPro BM2408-21T + 18A ESC combo with 8x4 prop...
But I donn't know what Battery works best for this Combo
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Ahrrrrreee. Now we understand a little bit more. :wink:
The battery you want is a 1100mAh 3cell (shown as 3S in the adverts) Li-po with a discharge rate of around 20C (20 times it’s capacity)
So,…..if you look in the adverts for a Li-po batteries = 1100mAh 3S 20C will give you about the same powered flight time as the original Metal-Hydride battery set up the plane originally had.
If you wanted to use the propeller for longer periods you could get a bigger 3cell li-po, may be a 1500mAh. But you must ensure that whichever size battery you get it will physically fit into the plane. The shops selling them will normally tell you the physical size of each battery.
K.
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Ahrrrrreee. Now we understand a little bit more. :wink:
The battery you want is a 1100mAh 3cell (shown as 3S in the adverts) Li-po with a discharge rate of around 20C (20 times it’s capacity)
So,…..if you look in the adverts for a Li-po batteries = 1100mAh 3S 20C will give you about the same powered flight time as the original Metal-Hydride battery set up the plane originally had.
If you wanted to use the propeller for longer periods you could get a bigger 3cell li-po, may be a 1500mAh. But you must ensure that whichever size battery you get it will physically fit into the plane. The shops selling them will normally tell you the physical size of each battery.
K.
Thanks Keith....
Off to E-Bay I go......If not there then HobbyKing....Again
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Can I go Higher Voltage as well ???
What would be the best out of these...
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=241&LiPoConfig=3
Size of my is . . 27mm H. / 35mm W. / 68mm L.
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Glad to be of help…………..word of caution when buying lipo’s off ebay Skyhawk.
I’ve heard of many people buying a real "bargin" lipo off eBay, only to find that it only worked for 20 or 30 cycles, (Charges & discharges) and then just died!
If I were you, I’d stick to well know brands, ie Flight power, Flightech, Dualsky, Kong Power, E-flight, Kokam. There are other reliable manufacturers as well, (I can’t think of them all) but any of the above should give you a good 300 or more cycles.
K
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No, you can’t go to a higher voltage because 3S is the highest that the ESC (speed controller) is designed to work at.
Turnigy is a good brand. Of the list on the site you’ve referred to I’d think the 1300mAh would be best,…….but I don’t know if it would physically fit into your model.. You’ll have to check it’s size.
B.T.W. Why are you buying your batteries from the States? It would be easier and quicker to get them in the UK or Ireland.
K.
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No, you can’t go to a higher voltage because 3S is the highest that the ESC (speed controller) is designed to work at.
Turnigy is a good brand. Of the list on the site you’ve referred to I’d think the 1300mAh would be best,…….but I don’t know if it would physically fit into your model.. You’ll have to check it’s size.
B.T.W. Why are you buying your batteries from the States? It would be easier and quicker to get them in the UK or Ireland.
K.
I buy most of my R/C car stuff from the States as €100 = $125
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Have a look at Giant Cod in the UK. Good prices and the stuff works as advertised
http://www.giantcod.co.uk/
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I buy most of my R/C car stuff from the States as €100 = $125
In that case why not buy your gear from Japan,……..100Euro will get you over 11,000 Yen :lol: :lol:
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I could do...Will have to have a look see what I can get for my R/C Cars..
Losi Mini Rock Crawler..1/18th scale
(http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss354/seanmcgrath48/minirockcrawler006.jpg)
hpi Baja 29cc Petrol..1/5th scale...My favourite.....
(http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss354/seanmcgrath48/wreckedflywheel001.jpg)
(http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss354/seanmcgrath48/wreckedflywheel002.jpg)
This is how it use to look like,before the up-grades
(http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss354/seanmcgrath48/BandonFloodNovember202009002.jpg)
Traaxas T-Maxx 3.3 trx 1/10th scale fully up-grades.
and the mini Maxx "table top racer" 1/32
(http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss354/seanmcgrath48/nitrocar002.jpg)
These are just a few of what I've got...
theres still the ...........
Losi micro DT 1/36th..
Axial AX-10 Rock Crawler with moded Motor 1/10th..
Losi XXX 1/8th..
...................................................
................................................. :D :D :D
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Hi again,
If #3 is going to be used as a glider as well as general sport flying you'd be best to fit a folding prop and fully enclose the motor but I expect that'll be tricky with the style of motor you've got. A normal prop is very draggy when it's not in use so it'll really hurt gliding performance.
There are 2 potential problems with the battery from an installation point of view. One as Keith said, is the size. The other is the weight. I don't know much about the plane so I don't know if you've much flexibility on the size or location of the battery. If the new power system you're installing is a lot lighter or heavier than the one it's originally designed for you might have problems getting the plane to balance correctly. The new system is probably lighter meaning the plane will tend to end up tail heavy. If that's the case, and if there's space in front of the CG for a larger battery than I'd go for more capacity (more than 1100mAh) instead of just putting lots of dead weight (lead or similar) in the nose to get the balance correct.
I've used a couple of types of HobbyKing lipo cells and have been very happy with them so far. Flightmax and Rhino seem to get better press than Turnigy but to be honest they could all be coming from the same manufacturers, you just don't know. In general the Flightmax cells tend to have better energy density than the Rhino and Turnigy cells (if the advertised specs are accurate). I'd probably go for something like these if you want almost identical size:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6308
or something like these if you can fit a longer pack and want more duration or need the weight for balance:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6307
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6293
There's no point getting cells with a high C rating if you don't need them as they're normally a lot heavier and more expensive. You'll be fine with 20C or 25C cells.
If you want to shop more locally than Hong Kong (hard to beat them on price but shipping sometimes takes a while) you could try Giantcod.co.uk, expressfly.org.uk or Robotbirds.com.
I just had a very quick look at Giantcod and they have at least 2 packs that are a match for size but I don't know anything about the brands:
http://www.giantcod.co.uk/rcmodelpart-1350-lipo-pack-p-405371.html
http://www.giantcod.co.uk/loong-tipple-1300-3s1p-2535c-lipo-battery-p-404432.html
You'll need a lipo charger of course.
There are lots around now. I've used Schulze, Hyperion and now have an icharger. Happy with all of them. The iCharger 106b+ is available from Hobbyking and a few other places. It's $80 but should meet all of your requirements for a while unless you make a quick move up fairly big stuff. There are much cheaper chargers available too. I haven't tried any of them so I can't really give you any guidance on them. I haven't used I would suggest you find out what you can about using and storing Lipos before you start using them. They are less tolerant of abuse than Nickel based cylindrical cells. Shorting, overcharging, etc can have serious consequences (potentially fire) and overdischarging will harm performance and can ruin the cells. The standard advice is to charge lipos in a shed, garage, etc away from anything flammable if possible and/or supervise the charge process.
Aidan
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Thanks for all the info Aidan...
Theres alot too take in...
Yeah I'd head that Li-Po's where not as straight forwards as the Ni-Mh I'm useing at the moment....
Suppose I'll just have to use my standard batteries for know,with the brushless motor..
I didn't know about chargeing of Li-Po's and the danger involved ( have 2 small kids in the house , the last thing I want is a fire )
Regards Sean
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Oh Skyhawk, with out realizing it you’ve walked into a mine field. :cry:
You see, as Aidan said a few postings ago, the power train, (Prop, motor, speed controller, and battery) all work “hand in glove” with each other. You can’t just pick & mix. Here’s the problem I’m talking about.
Your Metal-hydride battery pack has a nominal voltage of 9.6volts. The brushless Electronic Speed Controller that you’ve brought is designed to work with a 3cell Li-po,………which has a nominal voltage of 11.1volts. Doesn’t sound much of a difference does it? But it IS.
To get the speed controller to work with your metal hydride battery pack you would need to fit 2 more cells into the plane to get the voltage close enough for the speed controller to work. But I’ll bet you a pound to a pinch of salt that you haven’t enough room, nor would the plane fly correctly balanced even if there was room.
(It’s a pity you brought these models without asking for some advise before hand.)
I think the best thing you could do is to continue with your brushless conversion, and get some Li-po’s
To safely store and charge them at home get yourself a fire proof Li-Po bag like this one. Much safer that way.
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Happy%20Days/lipo%20bag.jpg)
Keith
p.s. Ignore the rubber band in the picture, I didn't see it through the view finder :oops:
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Thanks Aidan....
Just ordered 3x ZIPPY Flightmax 1300mAh 3S1P 20C and 3 charger bags...
will have to look into getting a charger now......
Sean
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For Keith...
I know from reading this... http://www.dmitrynizh.com/tw742.htm
that the Prop, motor, speed controller are the right ones...
I'm just hopeing now that the Li-Po's I've just ordered and bought will work with this combo......
3x ZIPPY Flightmax 1300mAh 3S1P 20C and 3 charger bags...
See Aidan's link.......
Sean
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Put your mind at rest Sean, the batteries you’ve ordered will work in the power train you have got, :D ……….don’t Panic! :lol:
Provided you’ve checked the physical size of the battery to ensure it’ll fit inside the model, all the electrics will work. (I’m just wondering if you’ve also ordered any connectors, to connect the esc to the motor, and the battery to the esc?)
The only slight question will be over the propeller. (As Aidan mentioned.)
From a gliders’ point of view there are two types of propellers.
One type is like that on most planes. The propeller rotates all of the time to keep the plane flying.
With gliders however the propeller rotates for only a short period, just to get the glider up to height. Then the pilot switches the motor off and the glider “Glides.”
From the Pilots point of view, switching the motor on, is like the driver of a car using first gear to get the car to the top of a steep hill,………..then turning the engine off and rolling down the other side!
(If you were thinking that by using the electric motor it would turn your glider into a fast aerobatic aeroplane,……………It wont.)
Anyway, coming back to the question of propellers, the problem with using a fixed propeller is that when the motor is turned off (After the plane has gained height) the propeller blades continue to stick out into the air flow. This acts like a kind of air break (producing lots of drag) and slowing the glider, making it loose height.
To stop this problem, powered gliders normally use what are called “folding propellers”. These work in the following way.
a/ When the motor is switched on the propeller blades stick out and work just like any other propeller.
b/ When the motor is switched off the blades of the propeller fold themselves back and lay against the side of the fuselage. This way the blades keep themselves out of the air flow and allow the glider to fly more efficiently.
I don’t see these type of folding props in the pictures of Dmitry’s web article. If you’ve ordered the fixed props like those you’ve seen in the article it will handicap your planes performance, but it will still fly. ( Replacement props are quite cheap for your type of set up.)
I believe you said you’re going to visit a local flying club today Sean. I’m sure you’ll get a lot of good information there.
Let us know how you get on.
Keith
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Hi Sean,
Having spoken to Barry from the local club it looks like there won't be any flying at the field today due to the weather.
But might be worth a look as you're close.
Don't think I'm going to manage it today.
But on the subject of LiPo's, they have great advantages and some disadvantages - like most things.
They have great capacity for their weight and can deliver high currents.
But they can be ruined easily, especially by discharging below a certain point. This is why LiPo controllers cut off sharply and don't allow you to run the batteries down in the same way that you can get away with for NiCads.
Also, the max charge point is not easy to detect just from the voltage alone. So chargers have to monitor the voltage curve during charging, and watch for the critical slowing of voltage rise at the top of the curve.
But don't worry, the chargers and controllers take care of all this stuff.
I would just say however, that in general I believe it's better to use LiPos in a regular way. In other words, charge until the charger shuts off, and discharge until the controller shuts off, then immediately re-charge.
Putting LiPos on charge from a 'half charge' state can upset some chargers.
Ron
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PS....
Google Earth says the flying field is somewhere over there...
:lol: :lol: :lol:
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Ron/Screen%20shot%202010-10-23%20at%2009.31.38.png)
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I would just say however, that in general I believe it's better to use LiPos in a regular way. In other words, charge until the charger shuts off, and discharge until the controller shuts off, then immediately re-charge.
Putting LiPos on charge from a 'half charge' state can upset some chargers.
Personally, I avoid discharging the battery until the controller's low voltage cut-off (this is usually abbreviated to LVC) when I can. Occasionally I misjudge and do hit LVC but it's not hte plan! The consensus is that the lifespan of the cells is much better when you don't discharge them below about 20% on a regular basis. Still, on cells costing less than €10 it's not really worth worrying about. I'd would be very worried about any charger that get's confused by part discharged lipos! I'm inclined to think the charger is one piece of equipment that you shouldn't skimp too much on!
If you don't already have one, you should get yourself either a Multimeter (you can get pretty cheap one's in places like Maplin) or a purpose designed power meter for electric power systems. A power meter (mine's an Astro Whattmeter) will typically show you the voltage, current and power simultaneously on a screen while you run your power system and will be a big help in matching up power systems and troubleshooting. You can also use it to check the voltage of your cells or you can use a multimeter for this (a multimeter isn't suitable for checking current as they usually can't handle more than 5A or 10A).
When a lipo cell is fully charged it should not exceed 4.23V per cell and when it's fully discharged it shouldn't be below 3.7V per cell.
The "3s" in the spec of the battery pack you ordered means there are 3 cells in series in the pack. So the total discharged voltage for the pack is 3.7V x 3 = 11.1V. The max safe voltage for the pack is 12.69V. Most chargers will stop the charge around 4.15V or 4.2V per cell to be on the safe side.
The voltage will drop below 11.1V while it's in use and just after you finish using it but it should soon come back up to at least 11.1V. If not, the cell was over-discharged.
The things to be aware of with lipos are:
1. only charge with a lipo charger and make sure it's set for the correct number of cells and the correct current. If you're unsure about this don't take any chances, anyone on here will be able to point you in the right direction.
2. make sure not to short them out
3. don't over-discharge them
4. Don't use them if they've puffed up - just discharge them to zero and dispose of them per manufacturers instructions.
I mentioned the risk of fire just to give you the full picture. It's not common but it's well worth being cautious with your lipos just in case.
Aidan
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HHHMMMmm, pity there is no flying today Sean……..But there is a gathering of indoor fliers in Cork tomorrow :D
It is that time of year again and the Cork Model Aero Club Indoor fly-in will be held on Sunday Oct 24th 1.00pm till 6.00pm in the Hall in Middleton.
All Welcome, tea, coffee and cake will be available. A small fee if any will be charged. Helicopters, planes and freeflight welcome.
For more info contact Ralph McCarthy at 087 8322791 or rmccarthy@cit.ie
Looking forward to seeing everyone.
A lot of the indoor boys also fly gliders and, in addition all indoor models are electrically powered, so you will be able to get plenty of advise there.
See if you can make it............You'd learn a lot from them. :?:
K.
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HHHMMMmm, pity there is no flying today Sean……..But there is a gathering of indoor fliers in Cork tomorrow :D
It is that time of year again and the Cork Model Aero Club Indoor fly-in will be held on Sunday Oct 24th 1.00pm till 6.00pm in the Hall in Middleton.
All Welcome, tea, coffee and cake will be available. A small fee if any will be charged. Helicopters, planes and freeflight welcome.
For more info contact Ralph McCarthy at 087 8322791 or rmccarthy@cit.ie
Looking forward to seeing everyone.
A lot of the indoor boys also fly gliders and, in addition all indoor models are electrically powered, so you will be able to get plenty of advise there.
See if you can make it............You'd learn a lot from them. :?:
K.
Yep, and we might manage to convince you to try indoor next!
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Hi Aidan,
Yes you are right of course.
My experience of chargers getting confused is with, probably cheap, commercial Li-Ion chargers.
And one hand power tool actually ruined a battery by letting it discharge too low.
The good ICs made for battery charge/discharge control in small battery equipment, look for the charge voltage curve rather than the absolute voltage, so it shouldn't matter what state of charge the battery is in to start with.
And, to the best of my knowledge, this is how cell balancing is done, as each cell will have a slightly different voltage at the critical point on the curve.
Anyway, yes I agree, don't skimp on the charger.
Yes the weather might make me take up indoor flying :o :o
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Where is the Hall in Middleton...... :?
Apart from being in Middleton of course :oops:
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Aidan, please allow me to correct you slightly re Li-Po voltages.
3.7V is the cells nominal voltage.
It’s fully discharged voltage is 2.7v although most people would say 2.75 to be on the safe side.
And to be even more safe most LVC’s cut the power at 3v/cell.
Yes, I know I’m a pedantic old bastard :evil: ……………….but I can’t help it! :lol:
K.
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You and me both Keith.
I used to be just a pedantic bastard, but now I'm an pedantic old bastard :lol: :lol: :lol:
Ron
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Aidan, please allow me to correct you slightly re Li-Po voltages.
3.7V is the cells nominal voltage.
It’s fully discharged voltage is 2.7v although most people would say 2.75 to be on the safe side.
And to be even more safe most LVC’s cut the power at 3v/cell.
Yes, I know I’m a pedantic old bastard :evil: ……………….but I can’t help it! :lol:
K.
I have to disagree with your disagreement Keith!
Those voltages refer to the loaded voltage not the resting voltage which is what I was discussing. The resting voltage of a discharged cell is 3.7V. They should normally be stored at about 3.85V which equates to approx half charge. Full charge is 4.23V.
Under load the voltage will "sag". How much depends entirely on the size of the load, the capability of the cells, the charge state and the temperature. If you're at the limit of the cell's output the sag can be pretty significant.
LVC limits early on in lipo use were typically around 2.7V but that was because the cells available could only barely deliver the currents needed and sagged A LOT! A typical 6C or 8C lipo operating at it's limit might trip the LVC at 2.7V under load but would come back up to about 3.7V at rest. However newer cells don't sag nearly as much so an LVC set at 2.7V would allow the cells over-discharge enough to damage them.
An LVC of about 3V is still normal practice but for high C rate cells it's often suggested that this be raised to 3.2V or so.
As far as I know there is no "correct" LVC value. It all depends on the resting voltage you end up with and that depends on all the factors listed above... and more.
Well - I've got to get off my ass now and go finish a new plane for Middleton and charge all my lipos for some indoor fun.
By the way - in case it helps persuade you to come along tomorrow - Ralph usually brings cakes! :clap:
Aidan
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What, What, WHAT! You disagree! :shock: :shock:
Hmmmmm :?: …….. I like a person that stands their ground. :D
Well Aidan, purely as an exercise, and from one gentleman to another;
To quote from your posting.....
When a lipo cell is fully charged it should not exceed 4.23V per cell and when it's fully discharged it shouldn't be below 3.7V per cell.
It has always been my understanding that the term ‘Discharged battery voltage’ refers to the potential across a battery’s terminals, at it’s lowest safe working voltage, while connected to a load of 1C. Therefore, to quote from Wikipedia
“The voltage of a Li-poly cell varies from about 2.7 V (discharged) to about 4.23 V (fully charged).”
What you refer to as “Resting voltage” I’ve understood to called the “Nominal voltage.”
Maybe the confusion has occurred in translation?
Either way, whether we choose to agree or disagree about this matter I assure you that I fully respect you point of view and I’ve found this discussion very stimulating indeed. Thank you.
(Actually, we used to have an encyclopaedia in our house, but we found we didn‘t need it…………my wife knows everything!) :lol:
Alas I won’t be at the fly-in tomorrow. I used up all my brownie point by flying off Mt. Lienster this afternoon.
Enjoy your day and I’ll look forward to meeting up with you again at some future venue.
K.
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Keith...Yeah..I've got the right folding 8x4 prop for the glider....
Ron..Pitty about the flying today was too windy for gliders,but I went kitebuggying instead...great day for that... :lol:
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Aidan & Ron... I'm totaly confused from all this Li-Po Chargeing rate / Discharge rate.........
Please remember I'm new to all this specially to do with Li-Po's :? :( :?
So I'll make it easy for my self...
These are the Li-Po's I've bought...
ZIPPY Flightmax 1300mAh 3S1P 20C and 3 charger bags...
So whats the best charger to buy for these Li-Po's....
Link if Poss..
Regards Sean
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Aidan & Ron... I'm totaly confused from all this Li-Po Chargeing rate / Discharge rate.........
Please remember I'm new to all this specially to do with Li-Po's :? :( :?
So I'll make it easy for my self...
These are the Li-Po's I've bought...
ZIPPY Flightmax 1300mAh 3S1P 20C and 3 charger bags...
So whats the best charger to buy for these Li-Po's....
Link if Poss..
Regards Sean
How about this Charger is it any good...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/IMAX-B6-Lipo-NiMH-Battery-Balance-Charger-5V-12A-AC-/160493424417?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item255e274f21
Was recomended by a member for a R/C car Forum....
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Yea, that’ll charge your zippy batteries Sean. In fact I’ve got a similar version of that charger myself.
That’s a very good price, :?: …………if you’re confident of the seller, go for it.
(You’ll need an AC adapter if you want to charge the batteries in your house……….the charger only works on an input of 12v DC)
The good part is that you would be able to charge your Zippy batteries from your car battery when you are out flying. :)
Are you going to Middleton Hall this afternoon as was suggested in yesterdays posting on this thread? Even if you only went there for an hour you could ask lots of questions and get some very good advise.(Much easier to talk to a pilot than type to one)
K.
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Yes I've got a version of that charger too.
It'll do the job.
I can't get to Middleton today.
Not only is it the other side of Cork from here so it would be over one and a half hours drive, I've also got a big job to finnish here today, and I need the brownie points :( :o
Ron
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Yea, that’ll charge your zippy batteries Sean. In fact I’ve got a similar version of that charger myself.
That’s a very good price, :?: …………if you’re confident of the seller, go for it.
(You’ll need an AC adapter if you want to charge the batteries in your house……….the charger only works on an input of 12v DC)
The good part is that you would be able to charge your Zippy batteries from your car battery when you are out flying. :)
Are you going to Middleton Hall this afternoon as was suggested in yesterdays posting on this thread? Even if you only went there for an hour you could ask lots of questions and get some very good advise.(Much easier to talk to a pilot than type to one)
K.
I'm waiting for the misses to get up...
Will see then What she wants to do for the day..
But more then likely . . . . I'll escape for the day....... 8)
and will head up to Middleton Hall..
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Sean,
Sorry I didn't get a chance to talk to you yesterday.
I hope you found the indoor experience interesting!
Aidan
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Sean,
Sorry I didn't get a chance to talk to you yesterday.
I hope you found the indoor experience interesting!
Aidan
Hi Aidan....
Yeah,I did.. :D
I've never seen indoor flying before and the skill of the some pilots was amazing....
There where all a friendly lot , the ones I talked to...
My daughter had a great time,she loved all the plane..
She now wants a propper one instead of that toy we had with use. :oops:
I'm sorry I couldn't stay longer...
But next time the club is out Gliding please let me know.....
mite of stopped crashing mine by then.......
Regards to you and all the lads from Middleton Model flying Club...
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: