GliderIreland - Ireland RC Forum - Flying Model forum in Ireland
Gliders => Slope Soaring => Topic started by: Brian on July 21, 2009, 19:05:33 PM
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Hi all,
This may be worth a go ; http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=946985
Brian
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Ha,.........eddited footage is far too easy to "fiddle" :wink: (Ask me how I know :) )
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Editing is fine Keith. It is not done as a continuous schedule. You can record each maneuver and then edit it all together as far as I can see!??
Looks like it is finished for this year but, maybe next time??
Something to work towards? Your Phase would do all those maneuvers Keith.
Or maybe build a new acro ship for the job. Fred has an interesting design. It's a mix of all the best aerobatic gliders rolled into one. A culmination of a long french forum thread on acro glider design. The plan I have is for a 3 metre version. Maybe foam wings and a lost foam fuse for the prototype??
Is that the sound of Voltij batteries charging I hear Brian?? :D
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That's it Joe.
I do not mean to enter the vid comp, rather something that we could develop for ourselves.
Any detail on that 'design' available.
I might be interested as might Keith.
Brian
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Big acro ship sounds good Joe. Some of the vids put up for that comp were impressive, not least the one by the moderator showing all the moves required. Favourite is the "Blue(black?) & Green.
What about reviving acro comps? Easier to run than F3f or 60". Start with a simple routine and make it harder as skills improve?
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Yeah! why not decide on a schedule and give us all something to work on. 15 maneuvers seems a little much to me maybe 7-10? and make it so most reasonably aerobatic models can do it??
For the design. Fred might have an image. I just have a big plan on my wall!
The size is 2.8/ 3metres.
There are plenty of 2metre and below models around but not much bigger than that.
They went through everything from control surfaces sizes to moment to side surface area etc..
I think the working name is Genesis.
I hope to make a start on assembling a new CNC foam cutting machine in the next week with Keith. Will take a while to get it up and running I'm sure. That will take care of the wings and stab.
As for the fuse. Ultimately making a mold would be the idea. Maybe for a prototype a quick lost foam fuse would be easiest option. See how it flies and then take it from there.
Fred?????
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If it has to be suitable for most models there can't be too much inverted, so we're probably looking at loops, rolls, spins, stall turns and similar. Leave it with me and I'll try and come up with something in the next couple of weeks and post it here for comment. Once we've settled on the manoevures people can start practicing and we need to work out a scoring/judging set up!
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This is worth a look, although t doesn't look like it's been updated in a while!! :roll:
http://www.slopeaerobatics.com/?q=node
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Ouiiiiii ????
Ok, another project so ? :roll:
As Joe said, we had a chat a long while ago with some of the best glider pilots of the category, and came up with one design that take the best of pretty much everything (well, in theory!! :?: )
Everything was calculated to be just right for aerobatics, and especially VTPR type of flying.
Seeing the amount of "small" aerobatic gliders around (Voltij', Wasabi etc etc) I went for the big side (we were around 50/50 about the size, less or more than 2.5mtrs) and design one that will do 2.8m or 3m...
Looks like an Excalibur, but it is in fact more a mix of all the Britanic vtpr machines like the Excalibur again, Sonic, Twister... And when you see them flying, you have a totally different view of what an aerobatic glider should be ! =P~ =P~ =P~
Look like something like this :
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Fred/Batic.jpg)
Lot of work to do a plug, but if someone want to have a go, or even for a lost foam fuselage as a try, I can give the plan with templates etc etc...
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I'll give a lost foam fuselage a crack.
I've done a couple that way, including my last thermal ship
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I've also designed this thing...
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Fred/hexa.jpg)
2.5mtr, all foam (to change from the small foamies you found now everywhere...).
Scrapped the proto (had all the parts !) without building it to make room in the workshop for more urgent projects :oops: :oops:
If someone want to give it a go when the cnc machine will be completed...
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Oh.......??????????????? er........ what is VTPR flying? :?: (Very Tight Perfect Roll?)(I do them all the time :lol: )
K.
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Oh.......??????????????? er........ what is VTPR flying? :?: (Very Tight Perfect Roll?)(I do them all the time :lol: )
K.
voltige très près du relief aka glider 3D
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Oh.......??????????????? er........ what is VTPR flying? :?: (Very Tight Perfect Roll?)(I do them all the time :lol: )
K.
the video on this age probably explains it better:
http://www.slopeaerobatics.com/?q=node/156
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Thanks Bill. These French people always talk in riddles :D :wink:
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Fred,
Foam model looks good, but would be best in EPP which I have found almost unobtainable in smallish quantities.
Aresti notation software (free): 8)
http://www.aerobatics.org.il/olan/welcome.php
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Hey Bill
Try here for EPP.http://www.hei-tec.de/modellbau.html
I mailed them and got pricelists. Can send them on to you if you want?
Haven't ordered yet but will do as soon as the CNC machine is up and running. Will use basic EPS while I get it all calibrated.
Might get the details from you for your blue foam supplier at some stage to!
The plans are available for the Madslide(model in the video) for download. All wood with foam wings. Maybe one for you Keith?
The Plu brothers that were over for Retroplane fly with BPLR and CPLR and said Benoit is constantly designing crazy stuff. Latest is a sloping superman that he flies for the kids.
Go for it on the aerobatic schedule. Needs to be reasonably challenging but as you say still doable with most machines.
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Pic of my madslide from the plan at www.jivaro.org
It's yet to fly and seems a little heavy. Throws are mad on rates and suicidal on full throw. Elevator goes to 60 degrees :twisted: (http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/billscottni/madslide.jpg)
More info on my own site at http://www.geocities.com/billscottni@btinternet.com/
which is looking for a new home, as geocities is closing!
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Heres the deal Bill.
I'll host your site and you give me a go on your Madslide!!
Bring it with you in september and lets fly the dam thing. As Keith would say! :wink: :wink:
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Heres the deal Bill.
I'll host your site and you give me a go on your Madslide!!
Bring it with you in september and lets fly the dam thing. As Keith would say! :wink: :wink:
I'll bring it and you're welcome to fly it!! :lol:
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OOOOooooo!................Me too....I want a go! :D Oh please let me have a go, I promise I'll be good :roll: (Provided you have it set up in mode 2).
Strangely I'd been talking to Fred about the Madslide the day before yesterday. He said that in his opion the glider was very limited to one wind condition, which rather put me off. So I'd be very interested to hear your reports on it Bill. (Nice colour scheme by the way. And it's always a pleasure to see a tidy workshop in the background :lol: ) Certainly the Madslide video makes it look 'A okay.' But as I said near the start of this thread, I don't trust videos!
So,.............when are you going to maiden her Bill? (This evening perhaps?)
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It's on mode 2 and yes you can give it a try. I'll bring it with me in Sept. As I said in an earlier post, it feels heavy so will need a good blow to fly in particularly with a fully symmetrical section.
I think it's my fuz that's heavy so if it flies OK I may build a new lighter fuz. I tend to build strong, but not necessarily light!
Workshop does occasionally get a tidy, but normally looks like a hurricane has gone through it!
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/billscottni/shop%201.jpg)
The working end
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/billscottni/shop%202.jpg)
The storage end
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That's very kind of you Bill, I shall look forward to flying her.
Seems you and me have a similar philosophy to models. I too prefer a strong model that's a bit on the heavy side.
It can get very 'blowie' up on Big L. (Fred, Joe and I flew up there once in 100Km/h winds. We could hardly stand up!)
Impressive workshop :clap: It's been many years since I've seen a garage with "Pit Boards" in it. (Dam,..... I'm showing my age :oops: )
Keith.
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Impressive workshop :clap: It's been many years since I've seen a garage with "Pit Boards" in it. (Dam,..... I'm showing my age :oops: )
Keith.
Unfortunately the stupid buggers who built the pit forgot to seal it, so it floods in wet weather as water leaches through the walls!!
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Hey Keith.
Most all out aerobatic gliders are limited to (have a preference for) one condition. Lots of lift!!
They will fly in less but are not as much fun as the wing profiles don't produce much lift as they are fairly symmetrical designed to give good inverted performance. Weight becomes a very important factor. Most 3D gliders are designed to be very light to get the most out of them.
I would say they are designed for your favorite type of slope conditions. A good blow on the north slope and these machines will come alive. A bit like my Jart. Boring in 20kmh wind on the west or south slope. But when you have a good wind especially on the north slope or on the cliffs thats then it starts to be fun.
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Keith
My Voltij is heavy/heavy has a symmetrical wing and tail section and seems ok for the little bit I have flown it.
You will have your semi sy,, Phase 6 for the light to moderate stuff.
A point to note is all these aero/3d models can be set up lots of different ways and they love the really strong stuff ,which we get a lot.
Put on big ailerons ( 30% of cord ) hinge them properly and you have a model for 4 axis flying, which on the Voltij seems quite effective, as it can fly in light'ish conditions.
Brian
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Hmmmmmmm :?: I have to say this all sounds rather interesting :D
Thanks for your input Joe and Brian.
On a slight technical note Brian, presumably the ailerons are the full length of the wing? Assuming that to be the case, if the ailerons were each split into flaps/ailerons I'd have crow ability for landing, and with ail/flap mixing, full length aileron for flying.
Oh! I'm feeling a tinge of excitement coming on :D (Like when I ask the Misses for a bit of nookie and she says, "Later.....maybe." :D)
Keith
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but "maybe" = absolutely no fecking chance!!.
At least gliders don't get headaches!
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Hi Bill. Thats a nice workshop. You certainaly have a lot of models.
Whats that your building on your workbench?
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Bill wrote:
but "maybe" = absolutely no fecking chance!!.
You know my wife Bill?
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Bill wrote: but "maybe" = absolutely no fecking chance!!.
You know my wife Bill?
No, I know my Ex-wife!!! :( :cry:
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Yes Keith. Flaps and ailerons are the way to go. For my flapped machines I just have a switch to mix flaps and ailerons together. Quadra flap some people call it. Then for landing I switch back to normal mode and use crow.
BTW what radio are you going for?? Futaba...??
See if it has flight modes? Very handy for changing camber. Just flick a switch and your ailerons and flaps droop a few mm. Good for light conditions or gaining altitude fast. Lots of 3D gliders recommend chamber changing. Brian you use this a bit?? Works well on the Voltij?
Don't have a wife :wink:
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Joe said:
Don't have a wife
And you still get no nookie?? (Oh well, at least you've got a right hand, :lol: :oops: )........but this is way off topic. Let's return to servility
The type of Tx I'm getting is the Futaba, (has to be that brand because all my rx's are 2.4 Ghz FASST) model 10CG. It's got 12 programes dedicated for gliding, so I think it'll have what I need.
When are we gonna get this CNC machine up and running Joe? I want to get some of these ideas converted into actual planes :D
Nookie or not, let's go flying :P !
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.Joe Keith,
Yes 4 axis = camber changing.
You set it up in a flight mode so that the throttle stick is the camber adjust.
Mid throtle = no camber
Low throttle = +ve camber 3 to 5 mm, proportional from mid to low stick.
High throtlte = -ve camber 3 - 5 mm.
This gives a symmetrical wing a big advantage over a semi when inverted and just about as good upright.
In another mode the throttle opperates the crow.
In another flaps and ailerons are all set as ailerons with the wing section restored.
Brian
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Yes Brian, I have a pretty good idea of what you mean. :)
Question: When using the throttle stick in the way you describe, would I have to remove the ratchet and arrange the throttle stick to have springs to center it when there is no fingure pressure on it. ie so both sticks are self centering?
I'm wondering if the throttle stick isn't self centering how would I know when there is zero camber on the wing? :?:
K.
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Keith,
Good question.
My solution was to leave it as a ratchet but I put a big notch at the centre point so it clicks heavy on centre.
Brian
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Keith,
Good question.
My solution was to leave it as a ratchet but I put a bog notch at the centre point so it clicks heavy on centre.
Brian
Only the Irish could have a "bog" notch! :wink: :shock:
(Belfast address, but born and brought up in Scotland) :lol:
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(Belfast address, but born and brought up in Scotland)
Well,..................nobody's perfect :lol:
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proof it's not always tidy in my workshop :oops: :oops:
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/billscottni/DSC00001.JPG)
yesterday @ 1630
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Joe,
If you ever get the cnc foamcutter up and running, what about a few of these for a one design aerobatics comp?
http://eppconcept.free.fr/MiniToons.php
cnc cutting sections are a free download
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Hiya Bill.
Making good progress with the CNC machine. Just getting it all calibrated at the moment. Had/have a few problems with the card. The cores look pretty good so far though.
Yeah, have the files for the Minitoons somewhere. Think I have the files for version 2 which is basically the Wasabi. Same size, same profile. Should be a fun little aerobat!
Will be ordering EPP very soon. Let me know if you want some.
J
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I'd love some EPP Joe. it's paying for it that's the problem :(
Won't have money to buy much until after the civil case for the accident.(Oct/Nov)
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Found a posting on an aerobatic comp in South Africa. Basic schedule which looks like we could adapt it for our purposes;
http://mgasa.blogspot.com/2009/02/two-oceans-slope-soarers-aerobatic.html
http://www.toss.co.za/documents/Slope%20Aerobatics%20Manoeuvres.pdf