GliderIreland - Ireland RC Forum - Flying Model forum in Ireland
Quadcopters / Drones / Helicopters / Rotary wings stuff => FPV => Topic started by: kankrz on April 21, 2010, 14:10:11 PM
-
Hi Guys
I guess everyones heard about First Person View flight systems. Who knows what kind of Tx devices are legal in Ireland ? How can I get information about Tx restrictions ?
I now that people (around the world) use 900MHz/1W , 1.2GHz/500mW or 5.8GHz/500mW for video links.
I found a website in UK which offers 2.4GHz and 5.8GHz Tx/Rx systems and I assume that this devices are legal in UK. Is Irish law similar to UKs in this matter?
-
How can I get information about Tx restrictions ?
I now that people (around the world) use 900MHz/1W , 1.2GHz/500mW or 5.8GHz/500mW for video links.
only 2.4GHz 10mW TX will be legal in Ireland,
you can use 2.4/500 if you have HAM license.
you can verify that with comreg.ie
also, you will NOT be covered by MACI insurance for this purpose.
-
It looks like we can assume that FPV is banned in Ireland. Tx 2.4G/10mW is not sufficient for this purpose. One working FASST futaba transmitter will successfully block any video on this band. Additionally, 2.4G video TX cannot be installed together with 2.4G Rx.
-
One working FASST futaba transmitter will successfully block any video on this band.
Er,......why? FASST doesn't block anything else, kankrz, so why should it block a video signal? :?:
I don't understand. :( please explain :?
Keith
-
One working FASST futaba transmitter will successfully block any video on this band.
please explain :?
no, it would not - potentially, you may miss couple lines of video.
also his last statement is correct - you can't use both radio and video at 2.4GHz - rc receiver will be "flooded" by a transmission of nearby video TX .
our neighbors in UK managed to get this activity organized and *insured*
http://www.bfpvmfa.org/
http://www.firstpersonview.co.uk/myfiles/file/FPVsafety.pdf
the main points are:
- EU law only allows max 10mW airborne video tx
- you have to maintain visual contact with your model
(for reference, at 600m distance 2m model will look like a dot)
FPV is not banned here - you just have to stay within the limits
and (if anything happened) be prepared to pay the damages as you will not be covered by MACI insurance.
-
rc receiver will be "flooded" by a transmission of nearby video TX .
Surely that would depend on the amount of separation of the video and rc signals and of the rc receivers image rejection ability..............wouldn't it? :?:
K.
-
Surely that would depend on the amount of separation of the video and rc signals and of the rc receivers image rejection ability..............wouldn't it? :?:
Keith, I am not educated enough in RF area , so I can only quote lads from rcgroups - "the safe way is to use 35/72MHz radio with whateverGHz video link".
-
Hmmmmm, :?: don’t know Dennis. The 2.4ghz band is ENORMUS, can’t think why there would be a problem. :?:
It will be interesting to hear what kankrz has to tell us about the matter. :D
K.
-
can’t think why there would be a problem. :?:
here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1164899&highlight=flood
posts #13 and #15
-
1.2GHz/500mW
page 29, table 13
http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/odtr0271R1.pdf
Video Senders at 1349MHz up to 500mW - perfectly legal here,
if only you can find who makes them :(
still, you will have to obtain the license to use that
and it will be restricted to use only within a particular area
(if any local farmer already got such license in area where you live - you will not get it).
the info above is from comreg, I had a chat with them couple years ago.
-
''It will be interesting to hear what kankrz has to tell us about the matter.''
What are you laughing at ? I really don't understand .The problem is that TX and Rx cannot be to close. Strong Tx signal will stop up/look Rx.
You loose control after a few meters flight. How do I know ? From people who tried to do this. Reportedly , FASST from futaba cause big problems. The only useful band is 1.2 or 1.3G.
Best regards
-
Hey kankrz, I’m not laughing….I’m just asking a question. :?:
The Futaba FASST system ‘channel hops’ within a range of frequencies. The signal only stays on one frequency for a few thousands’ of a second before it moves off to another one.
I don’t quite understand what you mean when you say that a strong Tx signal will stop up/look Rx. What do you mean by that? :? (Sorry for being dumb, but I was born at a very early age!)
The problem you’re speaking of seems to be one of what’s called “Co-channel interference” But with modern digital signals I wouldn’t have thought this would have been a problem.
i.e. Mobile phones use Tx and Rx that are very close together without any problems at all. Admittedly a video signal is a few Megahertz wide and an audio one is only a few Kilohertz wide, but the principle is the same.
People make many strange claims as to why their models crash. :oops: I’m not saying that a problem with video links doesn’t exist, but I’m curious to hear a rational/specific answer as to why, rather than just generalized statements.
Keith
-
I can only say what I heard from people who tried to place video Tx and model Rx on board (close together). Please take under review that Video Tx are not perfect and have problems with frequency drift, temperature frequency drift etc. A few meters distance is OK but few centimeters is not enough. That is way flayers use 1.2G or 1.3G for video. 2.4 is not good for crowded places.
When you ask about FASST system , you're absolutely right but even that you will not see anything if this kind of Tx works close to you. This is from practice experience (not mine I have to stress).
I have just order Eagle Tree OSD and telemetry system for my 3.3m glider. The issue of Tx for video is still open. I am going to use 35MHz system and probably 2.4G. Wicklow Mountains is the place where I am going to fly. I'll let you know , be patient :)
best regards
PS sorry for my English
-
Good luck kankrz, :clap: and do please tell us know how you get on with your system. :D
Keith
-
Hi kankrz,
I'm very pleased to see more ppl interested in FPV in IE. :)
As a big fan of AP I couldn't be more happy.
As for gear to use and putting aside legislation.
The best choice would be to have the TX/RX in 440Mhz ( there are some excellent kits that can go up to 5km or even more) and video on 2.4Ghz.
Of course having radio and video on 2.4Ghz is totally out of the question most of my friends that do FPV use is 900Mhz on video and radio on 2.4Ghz.
Btw let me know how good is the EagleTree OSD, I already have the eLogger and was thinking to get their OSD as well.
Nando
-
900/1800 MHz band is used by cell phones. I wouldn't go this way..
I don't want to write my next post from behind the bars :)
2.4G and 10mW ... maybe a little bit more :)
Another alternative is 440MHz for video. Advantage of this system is that it would be possible to fly with company of 2.4G and 35 MHz RC transmitters. I found the webside with very tiny TX.
-
Hi,
I'm interested in hearing a bit more about the frequencies available to use for FPV. My understanding is that frequencies in the 1.2Ghz range are also quite popular in europe and looking at this recent Comreg doc (http://www.odtr.ie/_fileupload/publications/Comreg0890R1.pdf) it looks like there is some scope for usage. Caveat being I presume that you must be HAM licensed to use these frequencies (and probably not allowed from a moving transmitter now that I think of it). Any comments?
-
Well, interesting point Lakelands. :?:
I believe Ham, (Amateur Radio) licences do allow for mobile use of transmitting equipment. However to use amateur radio equipment onboard an aircraft, know as operating as ‘Aeronautical Mobile,’ you must first have permission from the ‘Pilot in Command’ which presumably would be yourself. :wink:
So on that basis you probably could use you own equipment,………..provided, as you say, that you first have an amateur radio licence to use the band, and be sure that the type of video signal you want to transmit is allowed within that band. :!:
That’s a lot of studying just to get a video downlink. :shock:
Phew!!
K.
-
Time to get out the study books so! :lol:
In the states the course for a license is apparently easy enough with lots of sample questions and self tests available. I think the irish one is a bit more demanding. I am seriously tempted to do some *practical* experiments first :D .
-
Not that I would ever advocate the illegal use of radio transmitting apparatus! :shock: But bearing in mind the very limited Effective Radiated Power of most low cost/light weight video Tx, I very much doubt anyone else in Ireland would ever know you were using it, much less track down the source of the transmissions’ and prosecute you.
(Unless you were flying near a densely populated housing/industrial area)
-
I was looking into a few of those Fox based AV tx/rx combos which seem to be good value for money, are available in a wide power range (I would stick to low power versions) and have had generally positive reviews. As you said if you keep away from population areas I think you would pose very little interference impact. I think I'll delve a little deeper 8)
On a related note I have seen very few FPV videos from Ireland (perhaps I am looking in the wrong places) are there any in existance?
-
It looks like game is not worthy the candle. All this hassle with licence, then equipment for more then 1k $ , everything just to try the new toy - I am not sure. If someone wants to be very legal must not excite 25 mW for 5.8G transmitter. It is enough to reach 100m range (using quite expensive devices). On the other hand , I found report about 400m range on the ground with the same power and band. 300-500m is the range what I look for.
And two words about 'being legal' : Many people buy/import 5.8G AV links to transmit video from room to room , to look after a baby , to see who knocks to door. Most of them don't even know what they use. Intensity of electromagnetic field decreases proportionally to R^4 (R - distance between aerials) ... so this kind of occasional transmission (25mW), far from the cities and people aggregations would be hard to track , but most important : the chance that it would flood or interference other signal is very little.
Common sense is needed.
To be save : don't use 0.9 ; 1.2 ; 1.3 ; 2.4 GHz.
A few days ago I found an interesting website (not mine :) ) with 5.8G devices , reportedly very good but... prices , uff.
http://www.iftrontech.com/index.html
best regards - Krzysztof
-
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JJ/100616_0930_4_castletown.JPG)
-
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JJ/100616_0930_3_castletown.JPG)
-
Nice... someone is using a gumcam/keychain. :)
I've a SlowStick ready to be built with all the extra gear ready for AP&FPV.
For when a AP&FPV meeting in IE? :)
Is there anymore passionated people for filming from the skies?
-
Hey Nando,
I'm equiped, but the videos from the sky, like that, are in my opinion the most boring aeromodeling videos ever !
Good to have 30 secs of it in a video, but a full lengh :!:
My own opinion of course :P
I'll post one of mine later if I have 2 minutes :D
By the way, anyone interrested in a FPV/Aerial video/photo section on the forum ? :?:
-
A quick one... Taken when I was in Britany.
http://www.gliderireland.net/images/videos/onboardbritany.wmv
Sorry for the quality, did that really quickly! :?
-
And an older one :
:D
http://www.gliderireland.net/images/videos/retroplaneonboard.wmv
-
Aha!
Do you want to see my full collection of several years of AP?
All in one go... be careful if you live higher than the second floor as you might want to jump over the window... :D
True, AP or FPV footage unedited is extremely boring. I do suffer from that as I'm usually very lazy to edit them and allow that long parts of video to stay.
I believe that the ideal is to have small snippets in total making 2 to 3min and a good sound track.
Nowadays with the cheap cams I've seen some really cool ones combining different angles.
But usually the video are 10x more interesting to the person that was flying and did it than to the rest.
And now let me check you're videos. ;)
-
Hey I liked the videos.
But I'm crazy about AP and FPV. :)
Btw i leave here a video of cool things that can be done.
[youtube]http://youtube.com/v/wrvAMyobsAw[/youtube]
-
Never tried using an onboard cam myself. Of those I’ve seem I have to say I intend to agree with Fred, they are not very entertaining. However the thought occurs to me that they might have use. :?:
Would it be possible to have one plane with the cam fitted so that can film another plane while both are airborne? If that were the case then with someone filming from the ground as well you could inter splice between shots from the ground and airborne footage. 8)
Of course, we’re now getting more into the world of film making than flying but perhaps worth a thought given how cheap these cam’s are.
Keith
-
Hey Keith.
Allow me to reply to your question with a video. An awesome video in my opinion.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/S99O7sKcbBE[/youtube]
-
Ha Ha! Yes, I agree, a very good video. :clap: :clap:
But there are two distinctly different disciplines’ being shown in that little film. :?:
One, is the exceptional flying skills of the pilot.
Second is the film production. Those cameras are not the sort of thing you can pick up on Ebay for a couple of hundred quid. There’re professional 3CCD cameras.
Although the end credits tell you who was operating the models and the cameras they don’t tell you who did the hardest job of all……. Editing it!
Whoever it was did an excellent job of choreographing the footage to the score. :clap:
Curiously they used a Tricopter for the aerial shots. More steady than a normal heli I suppose. :?
So if you’re ever thinking of making a video like that Nando, Dream on my friend! :roll:
-
ahah!
You've very skeptic Keith! :)
The camera used on the tricopter is a GoPro Hero HD, around $299 camera.
The same person flying the tricopter made the video edit and it sure did a great job.
As for flying the Yak, well I'm expecting to count with you're flying skills. :)
I should have my tricopter ready soon, so I'm counting on you. ;)
The tricopter is way more steady and easy to fly than a heli.
In this case he's using a quite simple tricopter build, just with normal electronics and 4 gyros.
It becomes and excellent platform for aerial videos due to it's 2 axis stabilization, I say 2 because the altitude isn't controlled automatically, despite there are some models that do it.
-
I don’t know how you know what camera was used Nando, but I’d be very surprised if it was a 300 USD cam. :?:
I’m almost tempted to get one, but if it turned out not to work as well as the images in that Vid. I’d have no way of getting my money back. :!:
When you’ve got your Tricopter working properly, let me know.
(We could film some slow motion crashes, I’m very good at that!!! :D )
-
You can see how the tricopter was built and the camera used in here:
http://www.rcexplorer.se/projects/tricopter/tricopter.html
Scroll down and you'll see a pic of the GoPro HD cam, it does 720p 60 FPS.
And here is the cam:
http://www.goprocamera.com/index.php?area=2&productid=33
Check here the example videos:
http://www.goprocamera.com/video
Actually now it's cheaper: $259
And there are more for example this one specially made for FPV.
FatShark FS-DH1.
http://www.gowiththeshark.com/FPV_HD_onboard%20recorder_video%20piloting.html
$289
Can do as well 720p 30FPS, includes builtin battery and SD card for on-board recording as well as video out for FPV usage.
And weights 40gr!
How I know this? Well in PT there is a big and active FPV & AP community and I'm always digging out with some more people this informations and videos to share. :)
Unfortunately in IE seems that this is not very popular. :(
Just received the PCB's for my tri today, so I'll start soldering them soon.
But if I keep the pace i usually have building stuff I'll be ready around 2012. :(
-
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4074/4771659018_bbbe406630.jpg)(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/4771018551_c29f007c48.jpg)
here is what you get for 200euro
CMOS FPV camera bundle 420TVL 69,00 EUR
Fatshark 2,4GHz 10mW 4 channell A/V-transmitter 45,00 EUR
2,4 GHz 4 channel A/V-receiver 45,00 EUR
USB 2.0 Videograbber EasyCap 22,90 EUR
DHL premium eu 16,00 EUR
Fee +3.00% 5,94 EUR
including 19% VAT.: 32,55 EUR
Gesamtsumme: 203,84 EUR
video to follow
-
Check this one, 4:00min of pure fun.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/K75ZnxR66Uo[/youtube]
-
These guys live in a different world to us mortals.
But check out this vid...
http://www.vimeo.com/15651216
:clap:
-
Well, hello Ron :D ………long time no hear. I had thought may be you’d dropped off the edge of the world. :lol:
Lovely video isn’t it. Rather remindeds me of one of those travelogue advertisements on tv.
I kept looking to see the pilot, I think he was standing by the car that was parked on the lakeside road.
Anyway, nice vid, and glad you’re back in the ‘land of the living’ Ron. Done any flying lately?
Keith
-
Hi Keith,
Yes, nice to be back.
Had a hell of a time lately, with various relatives dying and all sorts of illness in the family.
Lots of that involved trips to/from the UK so I feel like a yoyo.
But starting to settle down a bit, with only my wife's cancer to worry about, as if that isn't enough by itself.
But even that is looking good and hopeful now.
Thanks for asking (even if you didn't directly :) )
Haven't done any flying, apart from passenger on AirSouthWest, for ages.
So now trying to pick up the, errrr, joystick again.
Must say this fpv thing looks interesting.
-
Sorry to hear of your problems and illnesses, didn’t know the misses was suffering with the big C. It’s amazing what modern drugs can do, let’s hope for the best.
So you’ve been enjoying the pleasures of the Dash 8 airliners of Airsouthwest have you? My other ‘alf is flying into Plymouth on one in December. (I'll be free for a whole week!)
How is your Booby, :shock: (if you’ll pardon the expression) Did you ever get around to assembling it?
As for fpv,………I’ve seen some fantastic movies, :D and some absolute crap ones :( . Not sure it’s as easy as it looks, Ha!
K.
-
Sorry to hear of your problems and illnesses, didn’t know the misses was suffering with the big C. It’s amazing what modern drugs can do, let’s hope for the best.
So you’ve been enjoying the pleasures of the Dash 8 airliners of Airsouthwest have you? My other ‘alf is flying into Plymouth on one in December. (I'll be free for a whole week!)
How is your Booby, :shock: (if you’ll pardon the expression) Did you ever get around to assembling it?
As for fpv,………I’ve seen some fantastic movies, :D and some absolute crap ones :( . Not sure it’s as easy as it looks, Ha!
K.
-
Must say I quite like the Dash 8's.
Son and family live near Falmouth so fly into Newquay.
I didn't ever have a Booby.
It was/is a Slingsby, and it's still in the same state.
Loads of cut out bits in a box. :(
FPV - yes like you say, there are some very good people, and then there's the rest of us.
And the complications of the downward video link, not to mention the expense, do rather put me off.
That aspect is an interest in itself in a way, and it shouldn't bug me as I've still got my Amateur licence EI8GMB, and the UK one G6IWK.
But knowing the way I can crash flight sims, making it a real crash may not be the best idea :?
-
Now this is very interesting Ron. :?: I have a very clear memory of ordering a load of foamies from an Australian manufacturer for guys on this forum and I was sure you were one of them. I remember it so well because I had offered to bring your model down to Cork after it had arrived in IRL from OZ. (That's why I thought you had a Booby.)
Strange how the mind plays tricks sometimes isn’t it.
Incidentally I had an couple of Ham licences as well.(EI6JQ and G0CGB) But I’ve let them both laps. :roll:
-
Oh oops.
My mistake.
Yes the mind does play tricks.
Well, mine does anyway :oops:
Of course I have a Booby.
It's in another box on a shelf :(
I really must se if I can get some more of those round things...
-
Interesting about your ham licences.
I still have an IC-718 looking at me accusingly from the back of the bench.
-
Well that’s a modern delight Ron. 8) You should be putting it on air on a regular basis. Particularly now that the sun spot cycle is starting to improve the HF bands. ( I used to love “Grey Line” 80mtr Dxing during the autumn and spring equinoxes)
Here I’ve an old Kenwood TS830s. (One of the hybrid rigs that were produced before reliable solid state PA’s were available.) Don’t know where it is, probably up in the loft along with a couple of mobile 2mtr and 70cms rigs I used.
I lost interest about the turn of the century.
I like to change my hobbies every twenty or so years! :lol:
K.
-
Hey Ron,
Welcome back ! Sorry to hear about all the bad news, hope everything will get better!
Back sloping, good for the mind :D
-
Hi Fred,
Yes, it's been too long. :(
But things are looking good so far.
One thing problems like this really do, (getting a bit serious here - sorry :wink: ) is make you re-evaluate what's important in life.
And I actually checked and re-charged the TX and RX batteries yesterday.
That's for the EasyGlider.
-
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3GhCLlTkbI[/youtube]
Easyglider pro wings on a DIY airframe.
MVVS 960 redliner motor 11x8 propeller
4900mhA lipo battery
AUW 2kgs
-
for your atention lads http://photoflight.ie/
My m8 doing photos from rc
-
Hi Petras,
Nice web site and great photos.
What camera are you using?
Must be fairly light.
Ron
-
A very engaging slide show Liutas. :clap:
I’ve often said that stills are better than movies. Much clearer images and better depth of field.
Very enjoyable, thank you. :D
Where were the images taken?
Keith
-
Where were the images taken?
Up in the sky of course :lol: :lol:
Oh, you mean which part of the sky.....
(Yes it's been one of those days :roll: )
Ron
-
Ron, im not Petras, he is my m8.
Just he was ahead of me doing Aerial Photography.
Im going in both soon, photos and video. Plane nearly done.
Its going to be something really nice :)
Cameras about 250gr
Plane is really slow, made for AP.
I think you can find locations on website were pictures were taken.
-
Sorry Liutas,
My mistake.
I'm trying to get going on AP, and fpv too.
So far it's mostly in the planning and getting organised stage, and trying to decide what equipment to use, especially cameras.
However, I have made a quad with a GoProHD mounted underneath, and the resulting vid, including crashes, you can see here (http://www.vimeo.com/17529695).
Planning a fixed wing with fpv and video, and maybe still too.
Ron
-
i got all my FPV equipment. Just had bad luck, crashed the plane. So it took a wile for recovery. In few days will be back in the air with new photo camera. And then will go for gopro as well for video
-
What is the photo camera you have gone for?
I've got a SLR which is way too heavy, so I'm looking for a smaller camera with a decent lens, and not too much weight.
Ron
-
Im going for something different than usual Aerial photographers do. Will show you when ill get it.
If i had more money to get few cams, will go definitely for next-5. Its much lighter (300gr) and quality is amazing.
By the way RON, do you use any stabiliser on your quad? Looks like its not stable sometimes. Dont you wana get gyros or something better?
-
Nice Video Ron. (Shame about the sound track! :lol: )
No, seriously, that Quad 3 seems a very stable platform. People actually pay good money to have aerial photographs of their houses. You could make a little cash ‘on the side’ with that set up. 8)
Excuse my ignorance but is the camera operation radio controlled, or a kind of “Light the blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance” sort of thing? :roll:
It looked very calm conditions, how would it perform with a breeze blowing?
K
-
The Nex-5 looks good.
Yes the quad has gyro stabilisers, couldn't fly without them.
But I found a snag with the 2.4GHz radio.
The antenna is vertical on the quad, and when I go straight up, directly over head, it's end on to me with the Tx. And the Tx antenna is end on to the quad as well. In the first crash I think it lost signal just as I'd started to descend, so it went unstable.
I don't think it liked descending so quickly either.
Also, if you watch carefully, the gyros do start to stabilise it just before it hits the bushes.
That has happened to me twice now, and always it's happened when directly overhead.
So a change in the antenna layout is called for, and also to keep the Tx antenna horizontal so the quad gets more signal.
My pilot sklls could do with sharpening a bit too :( :(
Used to fixed wing that's the trouble.
Ron
-
Hi Keith,
Yes it's a bit dodgy stability-wise at the mo.
But I'm planning to make it bigger with longer arms that should improve the stability.
And I'm planning on learning to fly it too :cry:
At the mo it's just start the video cam and take off.
Stop it when landed and dump it to the computer to see what it got.
It's not steerable on it's own, just pointing forward, but in theory you can turn the quad on the spot, so that shouldn't be a problem.
As long as the pilot gets the idea on how to point it the right direction.
I did rig a small(ish) still camera with a servo to press the shutter release, but it was all a bit heavy for the quad which struggled a bit, as did the pilot. :roll:
Yes it was very calm.
They can fly in wind, but that comes in lesson two…..
Not sure about making money.
Have to get the flying skills sorted first.
Good idea though. :clap:
Ron
-
From the images that I saw it looked pretty good. :clap:
Okay, it crashed a couple of times but that seemed to be just a case of student pilot syndrome, (for that type of aeroplane I mean.) You’ll soon get the knack of it I’m sure.
Re: Loss of Signal. Most 2.4 rx’s have two antennas specifically to stop L.o.S. as you appeared to have experienced. Bit of a nuisence if you only have one. :!:
If you place the rx antenna horizontal you’ll risk L.o.S. as the machine lands.
I think I’d go for a rx antenna at 45degrees from vertical. With the Tx antenna vertical, (or horizontal) the rx will experience a 3dB signal reduction but you’re not likely to be flying the model too far away from you so I’d have thought the signal strength would still be strong enough to able the rx to function properly.
Have to say, it’s all very interesting. :D
K.
-
Yes I'm still very unsure of the signal loss.
It just seems the most likely thing due to both antennas being vertical and end on at the time.
The Rx one does have a 90 degree bend in the middle of the actual active bit at the end, but then at the time it was effectively shielded by the base plate of the quad.
Hmmmm.
Since then I've got a better Rx with two antennas and two parallel receivers, so that might cure it, even though the new Rx was/is destined for the Squall (which hasn't even flown yet :oops: )
Rxs could do with 'S' meters on them :lol:
But maybe it was just a crap pilot.
These multi propellor wrong-way-up whizzy things don't behave like proper aircraft y'know :roll:
But... it's early days yet.
Ron
-
i cant give you an advice, don't fly over your head, or if you do that, change position of your antenna in the control. But best thing is, to keep it in front of you, than you will never loose control, unless something else will happen.
-
You are absolutely right about not flying overhead.
It can be confusing with a fixed wing, but with a heli you tend to lose all orientation as well as with 2.4GHz losing the signal. :(
I'm going to try keeping the Tx antenna horizontal across the front of the Tx and keep facing the model.
-
Ron,
Didn’t you say, somewhere on this forum, that your 2.4 equipment was a modular system and that you could operate on 35Mhz?
You shouldn’t have any LoS problems on that QRG.
I was thinking last night. :?: (I do that sometimes you know,………..Think :roll: )
If you are losing signal with your 2.4 gear, the rx will probably take a second or two to re-boot at Acquisition of Signal, which would only add to the “out -of-controlness” of the model for those brief moments.
Dilemma isn’t it. :!: Loss of signal? or Lack of Pilot skill?
They do say “A bad workman always blames his tools" :lol:. (I'm always going that. It's so much easier than admitting I'm wrong!)
K.
-
Yes you are right Keith (well sometimes anyway :twisted: )
I've got a 35MHz Cockpit SX with a 'stick on' (literally) 2.4 module that plugs into the 'tutor' and charging socket, so you can switch between the two.
There is a snag though (there would be...)
The ESCs say they are not suitable for operation with 35MHz RXs.
You tell me???
Does that mean they chuck out so much interference at 35MHz?
I would have thought EMC regulations would have said you don't get EC mark approval if that was the case.
Maybe the ESCs haven't got EC approval, though they have got the EC mark on them. Not that that's anything to go by.
And Rx re-booting. Good point.
And in this case the gyro/controller thingy probably has to 'acquire' the Rx signal input too.
ron
-
Yea’ It could be that the ESC throws out interference, particularly if it has a ‘switching’ BEC. (As distinct from a ‘linear’ BEC, which is basically a Voltage Regulator)
As far as I’m aware the ESC doesn’t radiate the interference so much as allowing it to run up the positive wire straight into the rx!
This can be overcome by cutting the positive wire from the ESC and using a separate battery to operate the rx and servos………but that adds more weight. (Or, more complexly, with tunes circuits and ferrite rings. )
OH BOTTOM! :!:
Don’t know what to suggest for the best Ron. :?:
What ever you decide upon you could always test the system with the model secured to the ground. Can’t get damaged then!
K.
-
Yes, it's a bit of a pain in the BOTTOM.
I was thinking of testing the 35MHz Rx with the quad just to see what happens. A large weight is called for with huge ropes and lashings.
Ah yes, a couple of ballast pigs from the boat should do it. :lol:
Or just a couple of pigs?
In fact, only one BEC from one ESC has the job of powering the Rx, so ferrite rings and things might just do it.
Testing needed.
After we come back from Lidl's this morning :!:
Ron
-
hi to all :) liutas I look forward to see your work.
ron camera fuji exr 200 gr.liutas was near :clap:
-
As i did promice to make a video, so here it is
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/PcM6Co-lI2o[/youtube]
-
Great video, thanks for sharing.
Do you mind sharing the specs/gear that you're using?
Thanks.
-
i got Plane from Lithuanian. It was made special for Photo and video Flights.
(http://images53.fotki.com/v140/photos/4/839714/9582335/689-vi.jpg)
You can order similar one from Lithuanian shop (http://www.propeleris.lt/index.php?cl=details&cnid=7d917c4ecbc7f13f3d97575bd577947b&anid=e90d64fe618edbc5075f5887abaf46e7&cur=1)
I have full FPV video sistem on it with FY20a Stabiliser
OSD: EZOSD WITH CURRENT SENSOR AND GPS
Video: 850 mW 1,3 Ghz Video System
-
Thanks.
I'm currently assembling a quad for the same purpose I intend to use the quad software itself to stabilize the camera.
Which antennas are you using for the video tx/rx?
I just ordered a new inverted wee for the TX and I need to order now a patch for the RX.
(http://www.flytron.com/101-334-thickbox/fine-tuned-dipole-antenna.jpg)
I found the stock antennas to be really bad, specially the one from the TX that had a problem causing interferences. (the internal cord seems to be damaged)
I'm not wanting bigger range as the quad has limited range itself, but the best image quality.
-
As you can see on the back of the plane there is 3db omni antenna. The same is on the ground.They work just fine for me. Don`t see the point getting something deferent, unless you going to fly very long range. As my video system works over 2-3km its enough form me. I'm awaiting as well for Dragon link UHF (long range module), so will have my plane in control for 10km, but i wont fly that far, as i don`t need to. all i want is to get 2km without any glitch and come back safe.
Next month Dosd v2 should be back for sale, so will get this as well, as it has autopilot in case you got some trouble with the plane, it drives back to same position as you started flowing gps signal.
For the quality of the video make sure to get proper camera. Cause cheap ones it just nightmare. But you can use your gopro for live flights. Its just not good in the dark.
-
Exactly I don't plan to go far way with it as like I said I can't either.
The quad eats alot of amps the range is short.
I'll be using the GoPro in the future but for now for testing I'm using a normal camera.
I've read good reviews on the DragonOSD gear but has I already had most parts from EagleTree that was my choice. I'm waiting for their OSD pro that also has RTH. Only problem is that the system doesn't have support for quads so the solution is to couple the GPS signal with the Quad software as well and have it control the auto-level and RTH.
-
for best tricopter stabilization is a KK system. I heard hobby king should start selling them soon. Its much better than gyros with flymentor or other similar system. Friend of mine is flying with KK, He said it so easy. You can let it go at any time, and it stays were you left in same level. he never tryed on quad, but it should work as good as on tricopter.
-
I know those has I have some. ;)
The other video that I posted with the GoPro is a Quad using a KK board.
But I'm building a better one, in terms of stability, the KK is great for acrobatics but doesn't have features like auto-level or altitude hold.
I'm just waiting for some cables and I should have the new quad ready soon. I'll share some videos later on.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/B-XDOC8Week[/youtube]
From some weeks ago.
-
I seen some youtube videos when quad has some unnamed stabilization. Works great, only thing you have to build them your self. Im not much int to ironing such a small things. But looking forward to get quad me self. Hopefully till that time there will be ready to fly systems for them.
Seen today someone was flying quad in Dundalk, but in a state, so couldn't get in to the backyard for a chat :)
-
Icewind: found something for your quad http://www.multiwiicopter.com/collections/all/products/paris-v3-0-multiwiicopter-board-plug-n-play
-
I have one already that I built up. :wink:
Thanks anyway!
(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/816/20110223071207.jpg)
It's ver.2.0 but it's the same, ver.3.0 doesn't bring anything interesting appart from a extra set of i2c connection pads.
-
Hello, this is my friends Evaldas and his plane that he uses for video and arial fotos. I see this plane when I visited Vilnuis in March, very very interesting plane. Evaldas has a gimble that rotas his camera through 360 degrees. His video footage is awesome.
Evaldas flys the plane and second man operates the camera with a live link to the ground so that the camera operator can see live pictures and control the camera.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/T9huh1ssLh8[/youtube]
Richard
-
My plane is the same as his, or even bigger. But have the same look. Its most popular platform for AP and AV in Lithuania.
Here is my last Flight in Gormanston co Louth
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/_m7L-P0Xlq4[/youtube]
-
Labas labas Liutas, brilliant video !
To make video like this, do you need 2 persons ?
I am very interested in doing this kind of video !
I try for first time small camera on my glider, this is cheap keyring camera .
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/VS96CaDyias[/youtube]
-
Labas :)
Im doing everything on my own. Just my camera dont have 360 funktion. What i have is tilt function. But that is enought, becouse i have stabiliser in plane and big ruder, so i can turn plane without any swing keeping horisont strait.
But most important thing is a rite plane for AP. If you want to do only fpv flight, glider will suit you :)
-
Labas Liutas, can you please post some photos of your plane and camera setup.
Yesterday I was on mountain flying a DG600 glider, winds were making it very exciting.
I had my wee camera taped to the wing and made alot of flight with camera at different angles. I then change position of camera to the elevator.
When I land plane camera had dissapeared. :shock:
Sheep on mountain will be eating it :cry: :cry:
Also question on your camera, do you us a gopro camera ?
Dėkojame už Jūsų pagalbą!
Richard
-
Rychard, i posted pics of my plane one page back in this forum. Page 8
My Setup
FY 20 A RC Flight Stabilization System
EZOSD WITH CURRENT SENSOR AND GPS
850 mW 1,3 Ghz Video System
SpyCam™ Miniature Video CCTV Camera with Audio
3D Video Glasses
Still awaiting for dragonlink. It takes so long for them to make new ones :)
Sorry for your camera los. you have to fix it realy hard, to make suore you not gona loose it. I already had 3 cameras crashed. But that was with other unlucky plane i had. This one is so smooth to fly, so easy to control.
Camera on board i had is jx250 fuji film. Havent got go pro yet. But my birthday is next month, so dont mind to get it :D
-
Hi Lads,
I am new here (and in RC in general), so please be patient :wink: Could you summarize legality issue for me? I am thinking about Turnigy 9x 2,4Ghz apparatus and LawMate TX/RX 500mW 1.2GHz for video transmission. I went trough PDF files posted on the first page, but I am still unsure (and update released in the December). Is it even legal to transmit video on 1.2?GHz Is 2.4GHz apparatus legal in Ireland?
This is not my firs hobby with such a problems here :?
-
Hi Bumper, I am unsure of the legal aspect of transmitting video in the South of Ireland.
I would suggest that you contact MACI , this is the governing body for RC in the South.
They are there to help you ! and will give you guidance.
-
Hi,
I have read with interest the messages so far. I have an amateur radio licence and I have been involved in sending TV pictures for 10 years.
From a techical point of view
1249Mhz transmitters are illegal in Ireland and we use 1240 -1300 (and received up to 1320) in Ireland so you will interfere with us! We report interference and can track down messers. We have already has to report and remove illegal commercial security cameras from our allocation.
MPT1349 (probably comreg typo) is actually on 1394Mhz and it seems to be exempt up to 500mW (this is a lot of power for a model aircraft)
See:
http://www.sourcesecurity.com/docs/fullspec/ACFA94.pdf
and
http://www.icecom.is/gogn/18931003.pdf
Generally I would not really advise it for your use as there may be high power users in every city which could cause interference. Generally the 5.8GHz stuff is better but is more expensive. A good camera is very important also.
We have a website with info (not 100% up to date)
http://www.iatc.ie
and there are people involved in Dublin, Cavan, Waterford and Cork. We mainly have equipment at the top of mountains which listens for a TV signal, then re-broadcasts this on a different channel.
For your use I would also suggest using directional receive aerials on the ground end as these are perfectly legal and can help the signal. The down side is someone needs to point the thing.
I am available to offer advice, give help and demo gear if needed. There is lots of good and bad gear out there so ask somone for advice. I aI (along with others) are working on text overlay on the video so you can ddiaply things like altidue, position (from GPS) and time/date etx. We are also conidering auutomous flight in the future (pilotless) I live in Bray Co Wicklow, so we can meet.
We have very high power transmitters and very, very sensitive receivers. I am also working on digital TV transmitters. These would be more useful for semi professional use or from a full size glider to ground. We can use them "aeronautical mobile" and you will hear a hot air balloon on our frequencies from time to time. The legal aspect is to stop interference with other users and your own aircrafts equipment.
Regarding cost we normally build our own stuff, or modify off the shelf gear. It's only a hobby after all.
Dan 087-7731120
Bray, Co Wicklow
-
your system from the link is not made for airplane. Its to heavy.
The only made transmitter video system is 900mhz, 1.2 ghz 1.3 ghz 2.4ghz and 5.8ghz.
We need power for long range. As im doing aerial video and photography i need to fly 1-2km distance to get a shot. so its complicated.
-
Hi,
I have read with interest the messages so far. I have an amateur radio licence and I have been involved in sending TV pictures for 10 years.
From a techical point of view
1249Mhz transmitters are illegal in Ireland and we use 1240 -1300 (and received up to 1320) in Ireland so you will interfere with us! We report interference and can track down messers. We have already has to report and remove illegal commercial security cameras from our allocation.
MPT1349 (probably comreg typo) is actually on 1394Mhz and it seems to be exempt up to 500mW (this is a lot of power for a model aircraft)
See:
http://www.sourcesecurity.com/docs/fullspec/ACFA94.pdf
and
http://www.icecom.is/gogn/18931003.pdf
Generally I would not really advise it for your use as there may be high power users in every city which could cause interference. Generally the 5.8GHz stuff is better but is more expensive. A good camera is very important also.
We have a website with info (not 100% up to date)
http://www.iatc.ie
and there are people involved in Dublin, Cavan, Waterford and Cork. We mainly have equipment at the top of mountains which listens for a TV signal, then re-broadcasts this on a different channel.
For your use I would also suggest using directional receive aerials on the ground end as these are perfectly legal and can help the signal. The down side is someone needs to point the thing.
I am available to offer advice, give help and demo gear if needed. There is lots of good and bad gear out there so ask somone for advice. I aI (along with others) are working on text overlay on the video so you can ddiaply things like altidue, position (from GPS) and time/date etx. We are also conidering auutomous flight in the future (pilotless) I live in Bray Co Wicklow, so we can meet.
We have very high power transmitters and very, very sensitive receivers. I am also working on digital TV transmitters. These would be more useful for semi professional use or from a full size glider to ground. We can use them "aeronautical mobile" and you will hear a hot air balloon on our frequencies from time to time. The legal aspect is to stop interference with other users and your own aircrafts equipment.
Regarding cost we normally build our own stuff, or modify off the shelf gear. It's only a hobby after all.
Dan 087-7731120
Bray, Co Wicklow
Hi Dan,
Great to see more people involved in these projects in IE. :)
One question, have you considered "inejecting" the "text" into the video stream but using the method used by the broadcast teletext? (vertical blanking interval )
I've been trying to find other ways to have telemetry without using a extra downlink or by extracting data from the video overlay.
Nando
-
There was a teletext encoder available for hobbiests but the company that sold it no longer does it.
With digital transmission, which I am working on, it is theoretically possible, but the off the shelf units just allow setting of station name etc.
There is some guys in the UK working on PC based transmissions where every aspect can be varied, and they hope to use it for one way data transmission.
Your best best would be to use a seperate 433.92Mhz serial modem to send the data. These are dirt cheap and easy to interface with. Some have built in error correction and are fast and good. It's what I would use.
Dan
-
Just sharing a small test done this weekend.
[youtube]http://youtube.com/v/b-TJS_5cacM[/youtube]
Lesson learned, never trust the chinese when it comes to crimping plugs.
Had to redo all the wiring for the video part, as the plugs were badly crimped and were source of video black outs.
-
Nice video Nando.
-
Finaly, got full set up on my plane, so can fly with maximum safety taking pictures around the country.
Here are few samples done in past few days
(http://images18.fotki.com/v438/photos/4/839714/9861128/priejuros41of1-vi.jpg)(http://images109.fotki.com/v779/photos/4/839714/9861128/priejuros51of1-vi.jpg)
(http://images115.fotki.com/v607/photos/4/839714/9861128/priejuros61of1-vi.jpg)(http://images57.fotki.com/v221/photos/4/839714/9861128/priejuros71of1-vi.jpg)
(http://images9.fotki.com/v250/photos/4/839714/9861128/priejuros81of1-vi.jpg)(http://images47.fotki.com/v1404/photos/4/839714/9861128/priejuros11of1-vi.jpg)
(http://images59.fotki.com/v222/photos/4/839714/9861128/DundalkNorth21of1-vi.jpg)(http://images29.fotki.com/v1009/photos/4/839714/9861128/DundalkNorth61of1-vi.jpg)
(http://images9.fotki.com/v114/photos/4/839714/9861128/DundalkNorth71of1-vi.jpg)(http://images107.fotki.com/v159/photos/4/839714/9861128/DundalkNorth101of1-vi.jpg)
(http://images23.fotki.com/v870/photos/4/839714/9607005/crownplaza1of1-vi.jpg)(http://images55.fotki.com/v608/photos/4/839714/9607005/Drogheda9papildyta1of1-vi.jpg)
-
FANTASTIC !
Liutas this is exactly what I would like to acheive with my camera and plane.
Is your plane now FPV ?
-
Thanks, it is full fpv sistem.
Without it wont be able to get clear shot :)
-
Great pics Liutas!
Those are making me consider installing the FPV system on a plane as well. :)
This weekend I went for further tests.
Solid signal and image and I should get the new "toy" I'm developing finished soon.
It's a ground box that connects to the video RX and tells me the signal strength and voltage
levels. So far is just on a LCD but when the code is finished it will give sound alarms as well.
-
verry good. Im waiting for Bixler form HK, this is gona be my fpv fun plane ;)
-
Hi Luitas, I am waiting on dry weather to test my ugly home build camera platform plane.
Made from foam scraps,ply wood from a scrap caravan, tail feathers from an election poster, and part of a fishing rod that I recovered from the skip.
This plane cost me pennys not pounds.
Will it fly ?
-
Hi Luitas, I am waiting on dry weather to test my ugly home build camera platform plane.
Made from foam scraps,ply wood from a scrap caravan, tail feathers from an election poster, and part of a fishing rod that I recovered from the skip.
This plane cost me pennys not pounds.
Will it fly ?
Man, im not specialist in building scrap planes, but anything with wings and motor can fly :). I think its cheap enought to by ARTF from HK. I just ordered BIXLER for 49$ (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__16544__Hobbyking_Bixler_EPO_1400mm_-_ARF.html).
And this plane will definetly fly. Great paltform for FPV.
-
Hi Liutas, my scrap plane now is in the rubbish bin !
First flight was not good !
I just returned from flying holidy on the North Coast and weather was amazing. Sad that I had no platform to take foto. :!:
I read very good reports about Bixler for FPV, very exciting to get new plane.
Richard
-
Weather was great in past days. We were flying fpv every day here. Sad my camera holder is too loose for dslr, so waiting untill my m8 gona make me a new one, than will be able to do high qualiti pics in the nearest future. Other m8 got his gopro camera. Looking forward to test it on my AP platform plane.
Now testing new video tx/rx 5.8ghz. Got instaled dragon OSD with RTH function. Works great. Now feel safe flying anyware :)
Here Is short video with my friend and few pics taken from my plane folowing his fpv plane :)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/rz1-ILDEqDs[/youtube]
-
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/6pfxZG4wfiA[/youtube]
-
here is my latest extreme flight :)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/FJ__uHk0tc0[/youtube]
-
Hi Liutas, super cool extreme flight.
-
Thanks Richard, glad you like it :)
Next move is to get gopro on it and do more lowflights :)
-
hi, I'm using 2.4 ghz Cockpit sx and would like to use some legal video tx/rx for fpv. Lituas is using the 1.3 ghz, 850mw system, I was thinking about the same thing but I'm not sure can I use it or not :( Had u any problems with that Lituas?
The range of fatshark 5.8ghz looks to be not good enough and prize is great as well :) How was the fatshark in your tests Lituas?
My target is get 1-2km max..
Will be good idea to buy EzOSD or better FY 21AP II with RTL and osd?[/i]
-
hi, i would recomend you 5.8ghz as its much better quality. Unfortunately legal is only 25mw, and you wont be able to fly with it. I got from Hobby king 5.8ghz 600mw and connected to my fat shark. Using standard antennas i made up to 1km, but got some glitches. You can use circular polarised antenna ant patch antenna for it on dual receiver, than you gona make up to 2km.
I am flying over the year now, and had no problem with any frequency.
-
thanks, so best thing will be 5.8 ghz and fatshark.. Does will fatshark 5.8 work with all 5.8 transmitters? Can u give a link of the system u got from HK?
-
Check on hobbyking what frequency fat shark works. Best is with imersionrc 600mw from HK. U can fly with standard antenas up to 1km. With 6db antena you can make even more. Sircular polirised antenas are very good as well.
-
thanks, will check it.
My bad day yesterday with key chain camera:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/oNNfqMJSK4A&feature=youtu.be&hd=1[youtube][/youtube]
-
Sad to see that....what happened to you? it is nice video.
Looks like you lost control or something?
In that case you need dragonlink+Dragon osd. So you will have signal up to 10km, and in case something will go wrong, you have RTH button. Plane will come back it self.
Have made video, unfortunately its only in Lithuanian language.
Im talking about RTH function, when i swich it on, plane comes back, and turns around your head up in the air. You will see me puting the radio control and having only video camera in my hand. you can go strait to 00:58 to see my puting the RC and wach plain coming back.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/IBPgnbE-aSw[/youtube]
-
my friend is flying over to new york for few days, I considering to get from there fatshark 5.8 with 600mw transmiter, dragon DOSD+ v2 and FY20-A.
But not shure will he get everything for me. What camera are u using for the fatshark? FatShark RCV922CAM PAL Sony 420TVL ? or something different? And how do u power all that in plane? I'm new here.. :lol:
the camera is I think 5V and can be used free tx port, or have you some 5V battery?
So my idea is flying with some powered glider or skywalker, with RTH, autopilot with 2 ailerons (DOSD+v2) and i think max 2km away or less.. I don't think about huge ground station :) Just go hiking in hills with glider and goggles :) and batteries off course!
-
im using this camera http://www.ebay.ie/itm/380298966727?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_500wt_1413
All video set-up is connected from separate battery to avoid interference.
you can connect 5v camera, witch easier to do so.
-
For a great site to get cameras check: http://www.securitycamera2000.com/
Most of the items there have free shipping and there is tons of camera with all kinds of specs. I'd recommend something with WDR.
Most refer the ones with Pixim sensors but I've seen and have good results with Sony sensors.
Great thing is that their staff run a thread in RCG and you can post questions there or even any support request: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1396248
-
Pixim is very good camera. Friend got one of them, looks very good even in bad conditions.
-
Made the video from the all year recordings we made :)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/HvPJs7L7rPc[/youtube]
-
Great video Liutas :)
Sveikiname :clap:
I see you and frineds fly Blaster plane ?
My good friend Ričardas Šiumbrys also fly this plane, a few years back for Lt in European Championships.
Maybe some day we can meet up and fly together
-
Thanks.
One of the guys has that plane. Im only intrested in fpv planes :)
Now starting to fly small helis. Got solo pro 328, gona put keychain cam on it, gona be fun :)
Other new project is Y6 hexacopter, but still have to set it up propertly.
Hope one day we meet up. Just at the moment hard to find some time for this.
-
here is video flight with mini helicopter and camera on board :)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/mHH6WNo4YDE[/youtube]
-
...
-
Very nice Liutas! :clap:
I guess this is a Gopro. Do you record what you see in the goggle? (for the video quality) :?:
-
...
-
Thanks Liutas :D
So, if I understand, you see your flight through the GoPro camera right? (sorry if that's a dumb question, but so far, I only saw flight movies taken from the GoPro, but for the actual FPV flight, another camera was used if you see what I mean :?: )
Now I'm interrested, does that mean the video quality in your goggle is as good as the Gopro quality then? :D
-
...
-
:clap: Very good Liutas!
Thanks for the info, did not knew you could do that with the GoPro!
Sound much more interresting than using another ccd camera.
Do you have a recording in VGA quality?
-
I dont record on the ground. But to have an idea, u can watch my viseos on youtube by choosing 640x480. Its nearly the same.
-
Looking good!
I'm sold!
Thanks for your help and advices! :D
-
no problem...any time :)
-
more video
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/zZ1BfZ6-5xQ[/youtube]
-
perfect! pro quality! was it done with easy star?
-
Thats done with Bixler, similar plane.
-
Hi Luitas, very good video. I really enjoyed it.
-
I know this is an old thread, but I can't find 1349MHz on that ComReg list.
-
but I can't find 1349MHz on that ComReg list.
because it is not - it's a gray area.