GliderIreland - Ireland RC Forum - Flying Model forum in Ireland

Gliders => PSS => Topic started by: JohnPearson on August 07, 2009, 00:20:42 AM

Title: MIG 29
Post by: JohnPearson on August 07, 2009, 00:20:42 AM: Hi All
Just flew my Mig 29 last night of the slopes at Moneymore mountains. The model is an EDF jet from the Fly Fly Hobbies range, all foam, very light and pre painted. The model is designed for two 90mm fan units, however I decided to give it a try on the slopes to see how it would handle as a PSS.
I give the model a few throws of the lower slope where we fly, with a wind blowing approx. 15mph. The lift at this spot was fair and the model flew well close to the hill, but dropped badly further out form the slope, (a long walk to the bottom of the slope).
Richard (my co-pilot and super photographer) and I, drove up onto the highest point of the second slope to see if we could get better lift. This spot is very rocky behind the slope compared with the lower slope, however we decided to give it a try, so a good throw and the Mig was away. This time the lift was better as we had hoped and the model climbed away nicely, however in the turns the Mig lost a lot of high and was very hard to control in the down wind leg. The second flight, again started of well with a good climb out away from the slope, however, again the model would not turn well and as it got further out from the slope, the climb rate was very poor and I could not get her back. ( another walk down the slope).

Overall the performance was fair, however I am not sure what the problems are, or how to solve them.

Could it be the wing section, the large open air intakes, control surfaces to small, no rubbers, mybe you guys could give me a few ideas to try before the next test flights.

Here are a few photos of the Mig 29 in action

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/IMG_0295.JPG)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/IMG_0300.JPG)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/IMG_0312.JPG)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/IMG_0301.JPG)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/IMG_0315.JPG)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/IMG_0302.JPG)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/IMG_0311.JPG)

JohnP
Title: MIG 29
Post by: billscottni on August 07, 2009, 00:40:11 AM: The control surfaces (ailerons and elevator) will have been designed with a fast flying EDF in mind and may need enlarging or the throws increasing.

If it flew ell close in ie in the lift band, it may be it just needs a better wind to fly well. Wing section could possibly be a problem and perhaps a change to something like Eppler 374 would help? (would also allow you to increase aileron size)

my tuppence worth and others may know better. :wink:
Title: Mig 29
Post by: JohnPearson on August 07, 2009, 00:51:50 AM: Hi Bill

Thanks for the input, I think the controls surfaces do need to be increased, however the elevators are very big and she was still very poor in pitch. This model was designed for speed, therefore may be if we fly it in a stronger wind with a greater wing loading this may help with the control response. What about the large air intakes, would these cause alot of drag even with the air able to pass freely down the intakes, what do you think??

JohnP
Title: MIG 29
Post by: Fred on August 07, 2009, 07:33:19 AM: Hey John,

Looking really good ! Like the colour scheme ! :clap:
For the poor response, in my opinion, maybe 2 things to have a look at : CofG, and as Bill said, flying speed (I would increase the wing loading.. Maybe put a ballast system on it or something like that :?: )

Had a F15, roughly the same size, and flying was wayyyyy too slow to generate lift, and to look like a jet ! (now proudly hanging on my garage wall :roll: ). Made of depron, the thing was too light to be a good PSS machine...

Hope this help.

Fred - Who have a scale F16 still in a box !
Title: MIG 29
Post by: DennisZ on August 07, 2009, 09:27:17 AM: John, that looks great !

I'd love to see more of those with Red Stars flying ... 'cos I'm Russian ;-)
Title: Mig 29
Post by: JohnPearson on August 07, 2009, 16:31:28 PM: Thanks guys

I will try your idea Fred, with the extra wing loading to see if an increase in speed will improve the overall control. Also a friend of mine suggested that I install a few LED's in the tail pipes to simulate the after burners, also, install a sound generator and speaker in the model with jet sounds which can be turned on and off on low passes along the slope, mmmm now I like the sound of that!!

JohnP
Title: MIG 29
Post by: Happy Days on August 07, 2009, 16:42:22 PM: Sound card, speakers, batteries,...Hmmmmm that'll increase the weight a bit. :?:

Like to know the price of the sound card John, the last time I looked it worked out to a couple of hundred, with all the gear :!:

Great picies, (nearly as good as mine :roll: ) must have a big, fast lense on that camera.

Are you gonna bring this bird to the Sept. Fly-In so we can all have a close up viewing? :D

K.
Title: Mig 29
Post by: JohnPearson on August 07, 2009, 16:58:00 PM: Hi Mr K

Good to here from you, if the model is in one peice after the next test flights, I hope to have it on the slope in Sept. I also have an F86 from the same range of suppliers, it's the one that Fred was talking about trying out. I may give this a go as well if I get time.
The sound cards are expensive if you buy from the dealers, however, one of my fellow jet jockeys Peter, is a whizz at designing little gizmos for models, so I will put the idea pass him and see what he comes up with. Looking forward to the flyin in Sept.

JohnP
Title: MIG 29
Post by: IceWind on August 07, 2009, 19:34:57 PM: Hi JohnPearson,

That is one great looking plane, looks awesome.
You have to make a video of it flying.

Does it have LG or you removed it for the slope?
I guess been foam and landing always on the belly may start to wear it.
Title: Mig 29
Post by: JohnPearson on August 07, 2009, 23:26:44 PM: Hi Icewind

Thanks for the kind comments, The Mig does have landing gear, however I removed them for the slope. The bottom would as you say, start to wear away, therefore I glassed the bottom of the intakes to help prevent this. If I can get the jet to fly better of the slope, I will post a video of the Mig in action.

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/IMG_6699.JPG)

Here's a pic of the Mig ready for flat field flying (EDF version)

JohnP
Title: MIG 29
Post by: billscottni on August 07, 2009, 23:31:22 PM: silly question John, but you have taken the fans out of it?
The intakes and ducts themselves shouldn't create a huge amount of drag, but the fans would!
Title: Mig
Post by: JohnPearson on August 07, 2009, 23:40:07 PM: Hi Bill

I have removed everything from the model, when she was first set up for EDF, I had to use two 5 cell Lipo's in the nose, one cell for each motor and the 90mm fan unit. The model was very heavy, however, with the fans at full power, the Mig would hover vertically in my workshop.

When are you going to get a chance to join us for a spot of slope soaring at Moneymore.

JohnP
Title: Re: Mig
Post by: billscottni on August 07, 2009, 23:44:54 PM: Quote from: "JohnPearson"

When are you going to get a chance to join us for a spot of slope soaring at Moneymore.

JohnP

when my neck starts playing the game enough to let me fly! Haven't flown since the crash on the 24th of April.
Title: Mig
Post by: JohnPearson on August 07, 2009, 23:53:10 PM: Bill, hopefully things will be better for Sept. flyin fingers crossed, by the way started working on the B52 again, could see a test flight by Sept if I get better organised.

JohnP
Title: MIG 29
Post by: billscottni on August 08, 2009, 00:22:13 AM: I "HOPE" to be able to fly in september too, but I'll be going down anyway (unless the forecast is abyssmal!)

With the recent winds (south), test flights of the B52 would have to be at Moneymore
Title: MIG 29
Post by: Happy Days on August 08, 2009, 06:21:25 AM: Haven't flown since APRIL :shock: .............

You poor fellow. :cry: You must be suffering terrible withdrawal symtoms. :(

Has your doctor prescribed Methadone?
Title: MIG 29
Post by: joe on August 08, 2009, 08:09:53 AM: There you go with your sex,drugs and rock and roll again Keith. The life of a man of leisure. Ido know how you do it!! :D :D

The MIG looks greats John. I think the easy answer is big lift and more weight. Need to fly it fast as it was designed to fly. Even with a decent glider/PSS profile I would imagine it is difficult to get that sort of model to fly well in medium/lighter lift.

I would try just taping the inlets over as well. I've read in a few places that sometimes the air passing through the fuse can actually cause more drag than just covering the inlets.
Title: MIG 29
Post by: billscottni on August 08, 2009, 10:03:23 AM: not methadone Keith, straight up morphine in patch form :)

main problem is I can't look up very well. I would be OK if I could guarantee to keep the model at or below the horizon.

I've still been getting a bit of a fix by watching.I was at Retroplane and I'm still CD'ing NIMSA events. But it's not the same
Title: Mig 29
Post by: JohnPearson on August 08, 2009, 12:35:29 PM: Hi Joe

I will try all the suggestions mentioned on the forum and see if the Mig flys better, I will keep you all up dated on the progress. I hear there may be an odd F16 looking for a dogfight ?????

Heading for the slope now, talk later.

JohnP
Title: MIG 29
Post by: joe on September 04, 2009, 14:22:40 PM: Hiya John.
Any progress with the MIG???
Will you be joining us at Mt Leinster on the 12th and 13th??
Title: Mig 29
Post by: JohnPearson on September 04, 2009, 16:10:05 PM: Hi Joe
Nothing done on the mig, I was at the BMFA nationals with the NIJets team flying on the showline and this weekend it's Portrush international airshow display so I will have to get organized for your flyin. Bill and I hope to be with you all next weekend, I need to get a B&B sorted for us, any suggestions, also fingers crossed on the weather, anything new from your own hanger?

JohnP
Title: MIG 29
Post by: joe on September 04, 2009, 18:57:58 PM: Hey John
Your a busy man!
The Moss House Bar/B&B in Bunclody might be worth a look. 087-6438168
Trying to get the Aermacchi back in the air. She's been grounded for a while for new stab, rudder and ailerons. It's was thrown together just to get it flying. Would like to get some paint on it as well.
Also have been getting my new CNC foam cutter up and running. Made a set of foam wings for my Wazeco which I'm trying to finish too.
The list goes on and on.....
Title: MIG 29
Post by: JohnPearson on February 13, 2012, 23:21:42 PM: Hi Guys

I am in the process of revamping my Mig 29 for the PSS event in March. I have cut new wings and given the model a new paint scheme, Which I will post as soon as the model is finished,however, here are a few pics of an after burner system I intend to installed, which can be operated by the throttle stick, to give a flash effect like the real jet burners.

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/afterburnermig29.jpg)

Afterburner on full throttle, gives a nice bright effect.

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/afterburnermig29a.jpg)

The same view, but from the end of my workshop.

I am not sure how bright the burners will be in daylight, however it should be interesting to see if it works :?:
Title: MIG 29
Post by: Happy Days on February 14, 2012, 07:52:31 AM: Very good John, :clap: installing a sound card would help. To hell with the extra weight! :wink:
Title: MIG 29
Post by: billscottni on February 14, 2012, 10:35:57 AM: A bit of weight won't do the model any harm Keith. In stock condition it was too light as a slope model
Title: MIG 29
Post by: Brian on February 14, 2012, 10:49:29 AM: Hi John,
I just love the 'madness' required to do this stuff :) .

Brian
Title: MIG 29
Post by: joe on February 14, 2012, 11:35:13 AM: Love it JP. 8)8) :D :D

and yes Brian we are a bunch of loonies!!
Title: MIG 29
Post by: Richard Boyd on February 15, 2012, 12:07:13 PM: Looks good JP !!!!!!!
What ever next will you be upto !

http://vimeo.com/2708249
Title: MIG 29
Post by: Alan_Perse on February 15, 2012, 17:48:34 PM: Looks great John :D :D . Will you have it ready for the PSS fly-in.
Title: MIG 29
Post by: JohnPearson on February 15, 2012, 21:49:35 PM: yes, it helps to be a complete nutter!! Just finished the wings tonight, so still on track for a flight at the PSS in march.
Title: MIG 29
Post by: Richard Boyd on February 16, 2012, 06:57:03 AM: Jp we know your nutters but please don't go to this extent :lol:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/vnho09dUBKU[/youtube]
Title: MIG 29
Post by: JohnPearson on February 16, 2012, 22:35:25 PM: Richard! you need to get out and do some flying, way to much time on Youtube bro!!! :?: :?:

Anyhow, just posted this pic of the Mig to give you all an idea of what she looks like with the new larger wing section added. I hope to add the green camoflage tomorrow, to the fuselage also panel lines and a little weathering.

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/pssmig29glider.jpg)

johnp
Title: MIG 29
Post by: johnfireball on February 16, 2012, 22:49:24 PM: Verry nice John,
Will she be going to Mt Leinster in March? and where's that swing wing you've been working on? Look foreward to seeing them fly.
John.
Title: MIG 29
Post by: JohnPearson on February 16, 2012, 23:03:20 PM: Hi John

I hope to have the mig finished by the end of next week, so if all goes to plan, she will be at the Pss in March. As for the F14, she is on hold, until the weather gets a little warmer, as most of the work, i do outside on this model
(big model 87" wing span) also I am thinking of cutting a new set of wings with a better aerofoil for slope flying. I will get it finished maybe later in the season :?:
Title: MIG 29
Post by: Alan_Perse on February 17, 2012, 15:50:30 PM: Looks brilliant John. Looking forward to seeing it in action.
What EDF Jets would you recomend that would convert well into PSS. I would like to give it a try.
Title: MIG 29
Post by: joe on February 17, 2012, 17:40:52 PM: Wow! looks fantastic JP. You cut new wing right. What profile did you use?
Title: MIG 29
Post by: billscottni on February 17, 2012, 17:46:23 PM: Nice John. New wing outline dosen't look out of proportion at all. Be nice to see it when finished
Title: MIG 29
Post by: JohnPearson on February 18, 2012, 21:38:33 PM: Hi guys, sorry for not getting back sooner! Richard and I have been putting down a new wooden floor today for a good wife ( I need the brownie points :oops: )

I finished the painting and weathering on the Mig 29 last night, just need to complete the canopy and add a top coat of varnish, also add a pilot later.

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/2012-02-17%2022.42.55.jpg)

Next I need to install the servos and work out the CofG ( with the larger wings, it will have moved I think?)

Joe I used a S3021 aerofoil section, supplied by Fred, also covered up the air intakes, so hopefully these changes will give the Mig a better flight performance, fingers crossed :?: :?:
Title: MIG 29
Post by: billscottni on February 18, 2012, 21:45:09 PM: AWESOME !! JP :clap: :o
Title: MIG 29
Post by: JohnPearson on February 18, 2012, 22:03:40 PM: Thanks bill, I am pleased with the paint scheme, looks mean!!! All paint used from tester pots water based, total coat £10.00.

Alan you posted that you would like to try a jet for PSS, I would suggest starting with a GWS A4 Skyhawk, an old EDF kit, but flys great as the slope model. I fly the blue /white A4, see Fred's last PSS video on the forum from last year, to see her flying.
Title: MIG 29
Post by: joe on February 18, 2012, 22:20:54 PM: Fantastic JP. Really looks the part. Used the 3021 for the Aermacchi. A good profile like that should make a difference. Looking forward to finding out! :clap: :clap:
Title: MIG 29
Post by: Fred on February 21, 2012, 08:15:45 AM: Stunning model JP! Certainly one of the most beautiful PSS on this Island! :clap: :clap:

That even made me look at my F16 kit last night! :D Looking forward to see it perform at the slope!
Title: MIG 29
Post by: Alan_Perse on February 21, 2012, 14:34:49 PM: Great model John

Quote from: "JohnPearson"
Alan you posted that you would like to try a jet for PSS, I would suggest starting with a GWS A4 Skyhawk, an old EDF kit, but flys great as the slope model. I fly the blue /white A4, see Fred's last PSS video on the forum from last year, to see her flying.

I might try that. Where did you buy it from?
Title: MIG 29
Post by: JohnPearson on February 21, 2012, 23:04:02 PM: Hi guys, thanks for the kind comments, lets hope she flys as well as she looks :?:
Alan I got my A4 from BRC hobbies, however, they are getting hard to come by, I suggest you have a good look around the web for a bargain, I got mine for £40 in an end of stock sale. I will take a look and see if I can find a kit for you!

O.K. finished the Mig 29 tonight and added all the wiring for the afterburners and servos, works great, just need to add two servos for the elevator and check the CofG, and she is ready for a flight. Here are a few photos taken in the workshop tonight.

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/PSS%20Mig29a.jpg)

Afterburners on full burn!!

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/PSSMig29%20afterburner.jpg)

System works of a 3cell lipo.

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/PSSmig29b.jpg)

Another rear shot with the heaters on full burn!

That's it for now, I will keep you all updated on the maiden flight soon!!
Title: MIG 29
Post by: Alan_Perse on February 22, 2012, 12:36:59 PM: Thanks John.
The Paint scheme looks great. How did you get such a smooth finish over foam?
Title: MIG 29
Post by: JohnPearson on February 22, 2012, 16:30:00 PM: Hi Alan

The finish is a little rough close up, this fuslage has been used a few times and also crashed, however, I used lite filler, Ploy-C and lite glass cloth on the top and heavy glass cloth and epoxy on the bottom. The wings are foam and balsa covered in solartex and painted using standard house paint!. Over all the finish is fine.

Alan the cheapest price for the skyhawk A4 is with Robot Models

http://robotbirds.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2707
Title: MIG 29
Post by: Alan_Perse on February 22, 2012, 18:58:26 PM: Thanks John. I think I'll get it. I did a search for it myself. Don't know why I missed it.
Title: MIG 29
Post by: JohnPearson on February 22, 2012, 21:46:48 PM: Hi Alan

Here's a colour scheme which I think is fantastic for the A4

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/TA-4K.jpg)

Could be done with tester pots for a cheap price
Title: MIG 29
Post by: Alan_Perse on February 22, 2012, 23:00:30 PM: Thanks again John. I was thinking of a colour scheme along those lines. Sorry to hijack your thread by the way.
Title: MIG 29
Post by: JohnPearson on May 16, 2012, 02:05:57 AM: Just got a few nice pics from Robert Wallace, of the Mig 29 at the NI slope fest last month.

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/dsc0023.jpg)

after burner on!

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/dsc0025.jpg)

after burner off!

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/dsc0067.jpg)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/dsc0162.jpg)

close up shoot with full heaters on !

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/dsc0169.jpg)

johnp
Title: MIG 29
Post by: the Pope on May 16, 2012, 05:46:44 AM: ohhhhh, I'm jalous seeing the pictures..........today, i go to The french pss event in Mâcon..a report above that if you agree....... :)