GliderIreland - Ireland RC Forum - Flying Model forum in Ireland
Planes => Jets => Topic started by: Happy Days on October 17, 2010, 16:59:11 PM
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Just for “The sake of it” I’m thinking about getting a EDF model. :D
Having never flown a ‘Jet’ before I thought I’d have a try and see just how hard (or easy :wink: ) it is to fly one of these things.
Question is…Which one to get????? :?:
I’m not into scale models, so I don’t care if it looks like a full size plane or not.
I want something that’s not too difficult to land, tough, reasonably aerobatic, and one more thing that I can’t remember,………er…….mmmm……..Oh yes, CHEAP. :lol:
Been looking at the Phase3 Fantom :shock: ………….anyone had one?
Come on then guys. Hit me with some good advise.
Keith
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Hey Keith,
My God, you are going to do planes ??!! :P
The NI lads will certainly gives you good advices on that!
Why not the MPX Twister ?
(http://www.plawner.net/4/multiplex/news.h2.jpg)
Had a kit in my hands, and that very good stuff, easy to build etc, typical MPX stuff...
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Thanks for the suggestion Fred. :clap: The twister seems a bit expensive, with the airframe alone costing €150.
The Fantom is much the same size for only €102 and comes with motor, esc. and fan unit. (SMC) Thanks for the idea anyway. :wink:
Anyone else got any ideas. I’m expecting loads of positive vibes from you Ulster guys :?:
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Yeah, haven't checked the price of that plane :oops:
You have loads of Chinese Jet thingy, fully equiped for good price, but not sure about the flying quality though :?:
Or go for a big one, like John Sabre or Sukhoi :D
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Hi keith
There are many EDF small jet models on the market, some good and some bad. You want a model that is good value for money and will fly well. I have had many different types of Edf models, the main problem is power to weight ratio, most of the jet models need a 4 cell lipo and a good motor with fan to get any speed at all, which adds more weight.
The best edf models I have flown for both speed and price are the following :
Gws F15
Phase 3 f16
Alfa Mig 15
The big EDF's are good but you need a good runway and a good 6 cell lipo for reasonable speed.
You can fly a rear prop jet model Keith at half the cost, and get a great flying model.
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/images%5B5%5D.jpg)
I would go with the phase 3 F16 kit, you get the fan,motor,speed controller with the model, add two servos and a 3 cell lipo and fly, great little jet and fun to fly.
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MMMmmmmm……….Many thanks John, very interesting! :?:
I came to the same conclusion regarding big EDF’s. So as I’m just looking for a bit of fun, and the local farmer doesn’t have a tarmac runway for me to use :!: , I need something that will be able to be hand launched.
I like the price of the F16 (being only a couple of quid more than the Fantom.)
I take your point about rear prop jets, although at the moment I think I’ll stick with the idea of EDF.
Just looking at the F16, it looks like the air intake is on the underside of the model. The instructions say it’s an all foam design.
Question; How does that foam air intake stand up to heavy landings? :oops:
K.
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OH!, now I’m getting confused. :? I’ve just been looking at the Phase3 range of EDF’s
They do a “Squall HP” (High Power).
This uses a 4cell Li-po, has an optional ruder and optional vectored thrust :shock: facility. On top of that it ain’t very expensive and is hand launched. (At least that’s what the guy in the video does)
OOOooooh, a few hours ago it was all so simple, I just wanted a cheap EDF……………Now I have to make decisions. Woe is Me! :cry:
(May be I should just stick to gliders :) )
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Hi Keith
The squall is a good model, however if I was in your shoes, I would go with the f16, good speed and good value for the euros!
As for the air intake, you can reinforce this area with a little fibre tape, it also comes with a plastic cover over the air intake edge for added support, The weak stop in this model, is the elevators on landing, you land nose high, then just before touch down, level the elevators, after a few flights, you will get the hang of it!
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What about building a pusher prop depron jet?
Plenty of plans out there and you could probably transplant electrics from your indoor models if you have any.
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Further to Bills suggestion , have a look here for a
good option :
http://foamyfactory.com/jets.htm
I have an ef16, flies great too
cheers
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Gentlemen, thank you for your postings.
Turning to Bill & Peter first.
What I want is to try something with a high thrust velocity. Why? I hear you ask.
Well,…….just because I would! I’m not concerned if the model looks like a jet plane, I’d just like to try flying something who’s thrust is developed by an EDF. ie something different.
I’ve tried propeller powered flight, gliders, and indoor models. So while I take on board the advantages that you suggested, I think I’ll stick with the idea of electric ducted fan. (But thank you for your advise.) :clap:
Mr. JP.
Thanks for your comments John. Let me just tap your brains a little more. You said in a recent posting that…..“the main problem is power to weight ratio, most of the jet models need a 4 cell lipo and a good motor with fan to get any speed at all.”Taking that comment to heart, (and not wishing to appear argumentative) you seem to be advocating models that have higher battery voltages and bigger fans.
The Squall HP has just that. (4 cell giving it greater than 1:1 thrust to weight ratio). It also rudder control, and the option of vectored thrust ability. All this for just 5 or 10 quid more The F16 (made by the same company) uses only a 3cell battery, has no rudder control nor any option for vectored thrust.
Now you’ve been flying these things a lot longer than I have, so I am but a “babe in your arms” but if we exclude the slight increase in cost of the Squall HP and just compared the two models, given the above facts, would you still vote for the F16? :?:
K.
(Great day up on Big L today. 50K winds, loads of lift but just a little chilly. I'd forgotten what cold hands felt like :lol: )
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.xx
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More here Keith
http://www.mauriziomartinucci.com/home_elettrico.php
http://www.parkjets.com/free-plans/
I believe this may be where Denis Z got the BD5 plans
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Hi Keith
The Squall is a great model, however you have to buy the thrust vector unit, and for great performance, many of the pilots upgrade to a hot motor.
With the F16, you will get a good fast model with what comes in the box, all with a 3cell lipo. In our club most pilots have an F16, and the display pilots from Langfordavaition club, use them in all their displays, 4&5 models at a time in the air.
Keith I have an F14 foam model in the workshop for a rear mounted motor, it yours free if you want to try a little jet model flying, let me know and I will get it down to you.
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K.
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OOOps, I'm having a spot of bother up loading text :oops:
Keith I have an F14 foam model in the workshop for a rear mounted motor, it yours free if you want to try a little jet model flying, let me know and I will get it down to you.
John, does 'rear mounted motor' mean it's a edf or prop pusher ?
K.
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Hi Keith
The f14 is a rear pusher prop model, however it flys great and is a good practice model before you start to fly a phase3 f16 EDF jet. it will give you the chance to get used to flying a small fast jet model, a little different from flying large gliders. I may have a motor lying around the workshop that will fit the model.
Its yours if you want it?
I will be in Dublin working next Wednesday, I could drop it off at Freds, if I get finished up on time with my client meeting!
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Hi John,
Richard and I were talking at the last Glide-In at Mt. Lienster and it seems we both have a similar philosophy to flying.
We agreed that it isn’t the flying that gives us as much thrill, as the learning curve. :wink:
Your offer of the F14 is very generous, and I thank you very much for it. But rightly or wrongly I want to go straight into EDF’s.
Call me mad if you like, (I wouldn’t deny it,) but I like the sense of anticipation, may be a little bit of fear and that feeling of total concentration and focus that comes with what I call ’pushing the limits of ones personal skill envelope.’
I quite expect to crash my first EDF model, :oops: but for the few moments between first take off and “impact” with the ground I shall be living very intensely. 8)
Thanks again for the offer.
BTW I’m still not sure which model to get. My head (with your voice in it) says the F16. But my heart dares me to buy the high powered Squall. :twisted:
I’ve decided to make a decision before I go to bed tonight.
(I might be a very tired bunny before I hit the sack!!) :(
Keith
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Okay, after giving this matter a great deal of thought, and taking on board all the good advise from my friends out there, I’ve discarded my original idea of buying a ‘Fantom‘.
It pleases me to believe, although some people may disagree, that my flying skill is greater than that of “Novice,” so I’m inclined towards models that require flying abilities of “Intermediate /Advanced,” To this end I’ve narrowed down the choices to one of the following two models.
1/ (Phase3) F16
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Happy%20Days/F16.jpg)
2/ (Phase3) Squall HP.
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Happy%20Days/Squall%20HP.jpg)
(Strange how both are from the same manufacturer, Phase3.…….And my favourite glider is a Phase 6 Ha!)
In terms of cost they are both more or less the same, (around £95.00) Both are supplied with airframe, ESC, motor and fan unit. So on that basis there is nothing between them. They also have much the same wingspan and overall size.
The Squall HP (High Power) uses a 4cell Li-po, whereas the F16 only needs a 3 cell battery. So the Squall HP has a slight extra cost in terms of battery. There is also the additional cost of a servo to operate the rudder. (F16 has no rudder control)
Now let’s look at some of the other factors;
Wing loading……..
The F16 has a loading of 15oz per Sq ft.
The Squall HP = 21oz per Sq ft.
With winter coming on, perfectly calm days are likely to be few and far between. Although neither plane (I imagine) would be able to fly on “windy” days, the higher loading of the Squall should enable it to fly better on a “breezy” day however.
Landing………..
After watching videos, both models have much the same landing technique. They come in low, slow and nose high, then basically “drop” onto the ground.
JP advises that a weak point of the F16 are the elevators which tend to get damaged on landing.
Not likely to be a problem for the Squall because of it’s different design.
However, the higher wing loading will probably mean the Squall has a higher landing speed, which does have the potential for causing damage to some part of the airframe.
Controls……………
The F16 has 3 channel control.
The Squall has 4.
(In addition, as an optional extra which can be fitted later, the Squall has a thrust vectoring facility for an extra £22. However, this item could easily become damaged during a poor landing. In much the same was as the elevators of the F16 could.)
Thrust…………
I’ve been unable to establish the thrust/weight ratio of the F16, but I do know that the ratio of the Squall HP is greater than 1:1 (AUW of 780grm/Max thrust of 930grm.)
Overall………..
John’s recommendation of the F16 weighs heavily on my mind, and I understand that there are many people who enjoy flying the F16. But I wonder if their pleasure isn’t because it looks like a well known military jet, and that the Squall would fly just as well?
Conclusion……….
Because of the less risk of damage to the tail of the plane during landing.
Because of the Higher thrust ratio.
Because of the possible addition of Vectoring, (after I’ve mastered the art of landing.)
And because of the greater number of control surfaces, I’m going for the Squall HP.
(Despite the extra cost of a 4cell battery and rudder servo.)
Thanks to all members to contributed advise, and John please don’t think I’m “spitting in your eye” for not getting a F16.
Look at it this way. If the Squall ends in tears,….. you’ll have the last laugh!!! :lol:
K.
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Goodman keith let it rip!!
or as the jet pilots say! 'kick the tyres and lite the fires' old boy.
If you have any problems, give me a call.
Ah!!! another jet jockey in the making I think?????
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keith, that was the most amazing piece of logical step-by-step mental verbalisation (or should that be verbal mentalisation!) i've ever read! well done! hope which ever you finally decide on works out for you.
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Hi gerry, don't incourage him, he already knows to much!! LOL
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Years ago I asked a girl out and she refused me. :shock: (Actually most girls refused me, but that’s another story….. :oops: ) I asked her why and she told me I had V.D……. Verbal Diarrhea! :P
( :?: I put it down to the fact that I was born at a very early age.)
I’ll up date you on the Jet when there’s something to report.
K. :lol:
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Well, the Squall arrived today, and, surprise surprise, all the bits that should be there, are there. :shock: :clap:
Instructions recommend using fast epoxy to stick it together,(EPS)……I’m tempted to use UHU glue, it allows a little bit of ‘give’ in case of impromptu contacts with mother earth. Any of you guys have any thoughts on that? :?:
Just my luck, the forecasts are for strong winds and rain. :!: The winds I don’t mind too much, at least I can slope soar, :D it’s the rain I don’t need! :cry:
K.
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Some people, so I'm told, use a hot melt glue gun.
Anyone any thoughts on that?
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That might work! :D
It has a little bit of give, nice and quick to set as well…Good Idea that man!! :clap:
Any of you experienced Jet Jockeys know of any objections to the use of hot melt glue??? :?:
(Come on,…..don’t be shy, tell uncle Keithy :lol: )
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Any of you experienced Jet Jockeys know of any objections to the use of hot melt glue??? :?:
If it gets too warm it melts the foam :?:
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I can see where you’re coming from on that point Bill.
But I use hot melt glue to secure the wing servos on the Phase 6, and that has a styrene core in it’s wings.
Can anyone else think of any potential probs? If not I'll start assembling it tomorrow.
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you can get low melt temp hot melt glue, bit of an oxymoron I know!. Might be worh a try? :?:
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Don’t know the exact melting temp of the glue I’ve got, Bill.
Like I said, I’ve used this glue to secure the wing servos in the ‘6 and it hasn’t damaged the polystyrene of the wing’s core so I shouldn’t think it’d harm the EPS that this Squall airframe is made of.
Suppose the thing to do is to try it on a little section, and see if there’s a prob.
Must say I like the sound of this,…….saves mixing up lots of small amounts of epoxy and then having to strap the parts in place with sticky tape while the epoxy cures.
(I always get very impatient when I’m building :roll: …………………..Mind you, looking at the weather forecasts I’m not going to be able to fly it for a good few days anyway! :!: )
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Uncle Keith
Go with the hot glue gun, I stuck the big B52 together with it. The trick with this method, is to not let the glue get to hot, therefore, switch off the gun every so often. The only draw back is weight, hot glue can be heavy, so just spot glue the parts at the stress points or spead the glue very quickly over the joint.
I use hot glue all the time with foam models, it's cheap and very strong. Lidl have a great offer on glue sticks starting tomorrow, I got six boxes last year with the same offer, 30 sticks for £5.00, compared with B&Q 5 sticks for £4.75.
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BINGO! :D
That’s very useful information John. I wouldn’t have thought about turning the gun off every so often. Thank you. :clap:
30 sticks for a fiver, now that’s what I call a bargain. 8)
Thank you for your input guys…………….only goes to show, “Your never too old to learn”
(And I’m older than god!) :(
Keith
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Hi Keith, hot glue works great on EPS/EPO even depron.
Another wee tip, once you have applied the hot glue and secured your joint, lick your finger and smooth out the excess glue ! it leaves a beautiful smooth finish.
Richard
it's hard to teach old dogs new tricks
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it's hard to teach old dogs new tricks
The 'old' I can agree with, but 'dog' That's a bit harsh isn't it? :lol: :wink:
I'll remember that tip Richard, thanks. Hopefully she should be finnished today..................well,.....I said "Hopefully"
K.
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(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Happy%20Days/Lidl%20offer.jpg)
Woopeee, the above are selling at my local Lidl........
32 Hot melt sticks 200mm long, 11mm dia for €2.99!
I'm off to do some shopping :D
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Woof 8)
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Speak for yourself Ron :lol:
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Apart from a few obscenities when searching for some servos for the model, and when I found some, I then couldn’t find the correct type of servo arms! :!: the build went reasonably smoothly.
A most Excellent idea to use hot melt glue, and a great tip of turning the gun off for a couple of minutes every once in a while. Thanks guys. :D
Couple of things surprised me a little about the workings of this EDF. (Having never had one before.)
I hadn’t realized this until I came to fit it, but the motor is an out runner. The book says it’s a 3400KV, that’s 50000 rpm with a 4 cell battery. Seems a very high speed for an outrunner, phew!
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Happy%20Days/EDF%20motor.jpg)
Also inside the air intake, (This next pic. Shows the underside of the plane without the bottom of the air intake fitted, Would that be called a belly pan?) there are a load of servo/motor wires. I’ve taped them down as advised but I would have thought they are going to cause quite a bit of turbulence. :shock: I’d have expected a “cleaner”/smoother intake area. What do you Jet guys think?
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Happy%20Days/EDF%20Air%20intake.jpg)
Anyway, here she is, all finished and ready to rock and roll.
Just have to wait for these storms to end. Could be next week I’m told. OH WHAT! :evil: (http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Happy%20Days/EDF%20finnished.jpg)
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My greatest fear, apart from landing, was that on take off she’d nose dive into the ground. :oops:
Up to the west ridge of Mt. Lienster I went this afternoon. My logic being that provided I could launch the Squall 3 or 4 meters away from me then there would be a fair amount of “air” beneath her wings to gain air speed in. Also, there’s lots of nice soft heather for her to land in if everything went pear shaped. :wink:
All my fears were to no avail, she took to the sky like the proverbial ‘duck to water.’ Climbed steadily and with just a hint of stick movement she turned round for a return fly past! :)
Much easier to fly than I’d feared, provided I moved the sticks gently.
By the second flight I started to be a little more aggressive with the controls. :evil:
Things learnt;………….Being only small, 26” wingspan, it’s very easy to loose orientation of the plane when it’s much more than a couple of hundred meters away, particularly against a grey sky.
With the control surfaces set to High Rate the planes roll rate is just a blur. :shock: There’s no way of knowing which way up she’ll be when you let the stick centre itself.
On full throttle the climb rate is breath taking. 8)
Oh, and the landing? Believe it or not, this EDF is one of the easiest plane I’ve ever landed. Looking not unlike a model NASA Shuttle she comes in, nose high up, loosing height and just “plops” onto the floor at little more speed than a fast walk.
Downsides?
Only one,……………..the noise! I’m sure she could be heard howling all around the mountain. Takes a bit of getting used to. But it’s all part of life’s rich experience.
(Won’t be flying this little girl in my local farmers field,………….might cause the cattle to stampede!)
Keith
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Well done keith (sorry I mean IceMan!)you are now a jet pilot, so you need a call sign.
Yes you are right about the little motor, it will get hot, therefore you can slow her down and cruise about at times during the flight, this will let the motor cool down. Don't let the model get to far away, because as you said, it can become hard to see, keep her in close with low passes and big loops.
I noticed you taped the wires inside the model, make sure that the tape is good heavy tape, as within the air intake, there is a lot of pressure, and the tape could lift off the wires and go into the fan unit and damage the blades.
Anyhow, enjoy flying the jet and we can have a dog fight with my mig15 the next time I am down at big L.
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IceMan! :shock: ……………conjures up an image of some Hairy Neanderthal, fumbling around with a club in his hand during the last ice age. :(
I’m a Hot Blooded Stud I’ll have you know. 8) Well,……………..for a couple of nights a year I am. :oops:
Very impressed with that little plane. Tell me, are all Delta winged models so stable at slow speeds? I’d expected them to be unstable at low speeds and become stable at higher speeds.
I’m looking forward to taking her out again and trying out some high speed aerobatics. Must remember to keep her in close.
I’ll keep my eye on those pieces of sticky tape in the air duct,….and look forward to a dog fight with you Mr P. :D
Keith
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NO,…..its not what your thinking! :lol:
I had to sit out a shower or two today before launching my little delta winged model into the Blue,…sorry that should read ‘Grey’ yonder.
Had a couple of 8-9minute flights and was really beginning to get the “drift” of this little girl. She definitely prefers to have a bit of power on in the turns.
Anyway, here she is………….not that you can see much of her. Flying and photographing at the same time in rather “Challenging” conditions is not easy.
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Happy%20Days/small%20but%20useful.jpg)(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Happy%20Days/yes%2C%20just%20useful.jpg)
After the second flight I picked up the model and started walking it back to the car to recharge the Li-po.
Slipped on a tuft of wet grass…….. :evil:
Lost my balance……… :shock:
Fell Base-over-Apex, (arse over tit)……. :?
Landed on top of the model!! :!:
Heard several Crack sounds…..!!! :cry:
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Happy%20Days/oooppssss.jpg)
Oh well, another little job in the workshop..... :cry: :cry: :cry:
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Oh NO :shock:
What have you done?
Definitely pilot error then?
And I was just getting interested in that little plane.
Not something I would normally consider, but your description makes it sound so attractive.
Except the falling over bit :roll: :roll:
Ron
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(http://29.media.tumblr.com/TbiOhUikSkfrvm7vyTIiqoi1o1_500.jpg)
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.....Tell me, are all Delta winged models so stable at slow speeds? I’d expected them to be unstable at low speeds and become stable at higher speeds....
Yep, slender delta's are typically pretty well behaved at low speed and can slow down a lot more than non delta planes with similar wing loading.
At high angle of attack the airflow comes around the lead edge and rolls into a vortex over each wing. That gives you a big stable low pressure region over each wing and allows a very high lift coefficient. Drag gets very high when flying it like this but that's helpful for landing.
Sorry to hear about the damage. The occasional crash doesn't bother me too much but it's annoying when a plane gets damaged while you're transporting or storing it!
Aidan
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Thanks for your commiserations guys. (I’ve not long been out of hospital following a minor operation and the tumble has left me feeling a tad sore at the moment. :( ) Hey-Ho!
Ron, with xmas coming up why don’t you splash out and get yourself a little something to play with when you cant get to the slopes, or when there’s no wind? (Every home should have one! :) )
Yep, slender delta's are typically pretty well behaved at low speed and can slow down a lot more than non delta planes with similar wing loading.
At high angle of attack the airflow comes around the lead edge and rolls into a vortex over each wing. That gives you a big stable low pressure region over each wing and allows a very high lift coefficient. Drag gets very high when flying it like this but that's helpful for landing.
Now that is very interesting information Aidan, :?: and answers the question as to why the model is so surprisingly well behaved during launch and landing. I really wasn’t expecting her to have such good low speed manners.
It does seem that you get the best of both worlds with Delta wings, the benefits from a high wing loading with a low landing speed.
So,……what’s the downside of Delta wings Aidan? There must be some, otherwise we would see more of them.
Thanks for your info by the way.
K.
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....So,……what’s the downside of Delta wings Aidan? There must be some, otherwise we would see more of them.
Thanks for your info by the way.
K.
In normal level flight they won't be nearly as efficient as a higher aspect ratio wing which means less range and/or more fuel. Where deltas come into their own is for transonic/supersonic planes where you need the wing sweep. Compared to a chevron wing like the English Electric Lightning, a delta gives you lots of wing volume (somewhere to put fuel, landing gear & weapons) and a reasonable landing speed.
For model planes where efficiency isn't a big issue they work well.
Aidan
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Thanks Aidan,…….I’ll remember that. 8)
(I’ll probably have to ask you some more questions later,…….when I think of them! :lol: )
K.
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What! :shock: :shock:
By myself a Chrissy Present?
Such reactionist ideas Keith.
I have enough trouble with the thought police as it is :(
On the other hand.... I could blame you now you've actually voiced my thoughts :twisted: :twisted:
Heh, heh, heh...
Ron
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Go on Ron,……..be a devil :twisted: . .just for christmas. :D
After all, you don’t want ANOTHER inflatable doll do you? :?:
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Decisions, decisions.....
Tricky one that. :!:
A Squall or another inflatable doll? :?:
OK, I give in.
A Squall it is then. 8) 8)
Ron
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Goodman Ron! :clap: You won’t be disappointed. (At least I don’t think you will)
Excellent instructions, a bit like painting by numbers. (Do they still do those? :?: ) Assembles like a piece of preverbal wee wee. :?
When finished you’ll be able to fly it anywhere. :D
(Although, of course, you would only ever fly it at an authorised and registered flying ground, :shock: like I do. :roll: )
As I discovered , the Squall only has one weakness Ron :shock: …….
It breaks, when people fall on them. :lol:
Well,... There's none so strange as folk!
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My only real worry is that it's a bit on the fast side, as this YouTube vid shows...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/ClfU6Tsk-fY&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
Thought that is with the vectored option.
Ron
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Yea, but there are also many shots of the model flying with only very little thrust, almost gliding, yet still flying and controllable. :)
That’s what I like about this model, though may be most delta winged planes are the same, it’s very well mannered at slow speeds.
So if you don’t want it to fly fast, don’t open the throttle so much!
Are you going to get the V.T. unit as well? You can fit it on later if you’re dubious about flying it first time with vectored thrust.
K.
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Yes it certainly does glide well.
No I think I'll keep the VT unit for an upgrade later.
Is yours the HP version with the 4 cell battery, and higher power motor?
Ron
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Yes,…..John P first suggested that having a higher powered motor would be a good idea. :)
I like the idea of having more power available because if I don’t need it I don’t have to use it, yet if I do want it it’s there :? ………………If you get my drift?????
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Hmmmm.... Makes sense.
Start browsing the shop adverts then... :)
Ron
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Lots of on-line research.
Well, it's the dark evenings you know :)
And a Squall is ordered, complete with VT unit.
Yes I've gone completely bonkers.
Even ordered a couple of LiPos too.
They nearly cost as much as the plane :cry: :cry:
Well, that's the pension gone then :shock:
Bread and cheese for the rest of the month.
Ron
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oooOOOOooo,…….you little rascal, Ron. :clap:
Feels good when you know it’s on order though, doesn’t it!
And you’ve ordered a VT unit. Hmmmm sounds like there’s a bit of One-up-man-ship going on here. :twisted:
As for two sets of Li-pos,.... the extravagance of it!!!
I found that 2200mAh were much cheaper, about £30 each, so I bought them. I still get 8 minute flights, just have to fly on slightly reduced throttle setting for some of the time. :roll:
Er,……. by the way Ron, do you normally eat anything more than bread and cheese?
Just finished repairing my Squall. Unfortunately Every battle leaves a Scar, :( but I actually quite like models that aren’t perfect looking.
A few creases and blemishes here and there adds a touch of character, don’t you think?
(I say the same thing when I look in the mirror. :oops: )
K.
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As for two sets of Li-pos,.... the extravagance of it!!!
I found that 2200mAh were much cheaper, about £30 each, so I bought them. I still get 8 minute flights, just have to fly on slightly reduced throttle setting for some of the time. :roll:
I'd suggest trying Flightmax 2650mAh cells from Hobbyking. They'll cost you about 1/2 that and I've found them very good.
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No oneupmanship on the VT unit. In fact with my flying it will be ondownmanship.
But then... I thought.... I'd rather break it by flying it into the ground than falling over on it :twisted: :twisted:
Yes, bread and cheese will be a good month. It's usually weevily biscuits and brackish water. :lol:
I'm all in favour of creases and blemishes.
(I have to be or I'd be permanently depressed)
Aidan: Those batteries look good.
Never used Hobbyking before, so might order one just to see what happens.
(There goes the cheese, only the bread left :cry: )
Ron
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Keith: Just one more thing before they come to take me away...
What sort of servos does it need?
There's talk of quick response ones and all that, but not being up on modern servos I've no idea what that means. :oops:
Ron
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Hhmmmmm, must confess Ron I don’t know what a quick response servo is, :?: other than to assume it’s function simply by it’s title. :)
The servos I put in my Squall were just some that I found while rummaging through a box of used/still working ones.
I’m pretty sure that for the ailerons (sorry elevons) I used a couple of HS65MG’s. (I tend to use a lot of those in my gliders.)
I can’t remember what type I used for the rudder, I seem to recall is was a rather smaller one. Unfortunately they are all imbedded into the fabric of the airframe and can’t be seen now. :!:
I don’t think it’s critical Ron, and for my flying skills and reaction times, (and if I may make so bold an assumption, probably for your’s as well, :oops: ) I don’t think “Quick Response” servos would be necessary.
If you’ve got some servos that ‘fit in the holes’ try them but only stick them in with a light gluing. If they work okay, secure them more thoroughly, or replace them if they’re no good for the task.
Best advise I can offer I’m afraid
K.
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Try this video Ron !
My friend Derk with his F16 !!!!!!!!
http://airtoimedia.nl/web/upload/vdVechten/F-16%20hA.wmv
Emax ES08MA metal geared servos is what we used in ours !
£6 odd per servo from expressfly , and they take abit of beating.
Mine even had a dip in the Altantic Ocean during a display at the Portrush Airshow lol.
[/code]
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Thanks Keith.
Yes I think a quick response brain might be a better priority :oops:
Ron
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Thanks Richard.
That vid is brilliant, especially the angle of attack of the wings during the slow passes.
They must be stalled and using the 'barn door' effect to keep flying.
I was wondering about waterproofing 8)
Not least because it's been ground level cloud here these last few days. :(
I'll have a look at those servos.
Ron
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Hi Gentlemen, one word of warning !
Derk is a world class pilot both in jets /F3A /F6B/F3P !
soon it will be the real jets he will fly !
My Dad (aged 80) flys his F16 it a pussy cat !
Just watch the elevons on tuffs of grass lol
Richard
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Just watched that video again.
As always, an expert makes it look easy.
Point taken.
Ron
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I can fly like Derk…………….well,….in my dreams I can! :lol:
Here she is , back in the air again.(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Happy%20Days/No2.jpg)(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Happy%20Days/No3.jpg)
The misses took the picture. Said she wasn’t very impressed with my flying, the model kept going past her camera too quickly.
(I don’t think the cattle were very impressed either. :( )
Keith
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Looks good Keith.
It's the fast plane, slow camera syndrome 8)
I used to know a photographer once (cough years ago - yawn) who specialised in formula one. Used to stand by the track on a corner and swing with the car to get the shot.
(Shows how many years ago this was that he was allowed to stand on a corner)
One day he was laid up with 'flu' but thought he'd get some shots from the grand prix on the tele.
Every time a car came past he couldn't stop himself swinging the camera.... :lol: :lol: :!:
Ron
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Couldn’t resist having a go at Derk’s low flying at a high angle of attack stunt. :D (As in the video)
Even with loads of concentration I failed. :( The plane stalled,……… and snapped off the nose.
(Two minutes with a spot of glue and all back together again :) .) But the experience raised some interesting questions in my mind.
Firstly I didn’t really think I’d be able to do it. I’ve less than an hour flying time on jets. Derk, I’m told, has had a lifetime. 8)
Now I know a ‘Bad workman always blames his tools’ but I’m wondering if the Squall is actually capable of doing the same stunt as Derk did. :?: It can fly at a high angle of attack while loosing height, but maintaining that steep nose up angle whilst in level flight just didn’t seem possible.
Looking at the F-16 it has fully moving elevators, right at the rear of the fuse. (Where else would they be!!!)
The Squall had elevons, and these are some 20% further forward. Whether this has any relivance or not I don’t know. I’m also wondering if the F-16 had a VT unit fitted :?:
So,…………all you jet jockey’s out there. Do you think it’s possible, in the hands of a skilled jet pilot, that the Squall could perform such a trick?
K.
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Hmmmm
Food for thought indeed.
Maybe, just maybe, the VT unit providing 'elevator' type thrust right at the rear, might allow this stunt?
Or maybe Derk's stunt was more balancing on it's tail than actually flying :?
Ron
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Hmmmm
Maybe, just maybe, the VT unit providing 'elevator' type thrust right at the rear, might allow this stunt?
Or maybe Derk's stunt was more balancing on it's tail than actually flying :?
Well that’s what I thought Ron, but I couldn’t see a VT unit in the vid.
I tried to balance the Squall on it’s tail……….I don’t have anything like enough skill yet, :roll: but I did find that trying to do it is incredibly difficult. With little or no air moving over the control surfaces, the slightest breeze flips the plane over. :oops:
It’s nothing like prop hanging a propeller powered plane, which produces a massive amount of “prop wash” over the elevator & rudder giving a fair amount of control.
With a jet, there is no prop wash.
It doesn’t help trying to do these tricks at a safe height either. (So there is time to recover and regain control.) As the plane is so small it’s difficult to see the subtle movements. :!:
I want to know how he did it! :evil: :evil:
Keith
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Yes that all-moving tailplane must be a big help.
As you say, no propwash, so the bigger the control surfaces the better.
I can't see a VT unit either...
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Ron/Screen%20shot%202010-11-06%20at%2017.36.13.png)
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Ron/Screen%20shot%202010-11-06%20at%2017.42.46.png)
I think Derk had a very calm day too, not a windy hilltop.
Still looking forward to mine arriving though :lol:
Ron[/img]
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Well....
Parcelforce say my Squall left Gatwick at 22:00 yesterday :D
Lets hope the batteries last :lol: :lol:
Ron
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What!….you ordered it last Wednesday, and it only left Gatwick last night? :shock: That’s terrible!
Oh well, you should get it tomorrow then, or else sack the postman.
At least one of the good things is it wont take you long to assemble it. I suppose mine took about 4-5 hours in total. (Although I tend to do a bit, then toddle off and potter around with something else before returning to do a bit more to the model.)
It comprised of two hours fitting it together the way I thought it should go. 10 minutes reading the instructions and twenty minutes of undoing what I’d done wrong. Then an hour re-assembling it. Half an hour sticking the decals on, apart from the name and manufacturer…….If they want me to advertise their products they must pay me for doing so!……(One of my little pet hates don‘t you know. :twisted: ) (Although I have been “advertising” it, haven’t I! :roll: ……..and you’ve brought one Ron…..I’ll send Phase 3 an invoice for ‘Services Rendered.’)
Anyway, I guess I spent another hour fitting the Rx, programming the Tx, checking the control surfaces movements, and running up the motor. That ducted fan don’t half make a breeze,…….be good for blowing fallen leaves off the drive way I recon!
So,…..if the model arrives by, say, 9 o/c tomorrow morning,…….you should have it flying by tea time.
We’ll be expecting a full report by tomorrow evening!!! Ha. :lol:
Ron will you be fitting the VT unit straight away, or wait until you’ve tried it out first and then fit it? :?:
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Yes it's not good.
Last thing I ordered from them it came amazingly quickly.
But then that was by post.
This is by Parcelforce :(
Never had good service from them.
Last delivery by Parcelforce, the chap had been given 57 parcels to deliver in a day.
Even at one delivery every 15 minutes (which is totally impossible around here) that would be 14 hours, and not counting driving from Cork and back (another 2 hours).
You can tell I'm not impressed :evil:
So I may well contact Sussex Model Centre about it.
This time I may well sit down and read the instructions :shock: :shock:
There's always a first time. :lol:
Not sure about fitting the VT unit.
My first inclination is to leave it until later.
But then, when building, it's nice to do the whole thing.
Have a think about that.
Ron
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Didn’t think Parcelforce operated in the Republic,….may be I’m wrong.
Yes Do read the instructions Ron particularly about the fitting of the VT unit. I intend to fit one to mine eventually and I’m glad I read the extra piece in the manual about fitting the VT unit, before I fitted the standard exhaust unit.
You’ll see what I mean when you read it.
As for SMC. I had used them for most of my stuff. Noticed a decided drop off in efficiency last December, so I stopped using them for a while.
So far, since the start of the summer anyway, I’ve found them to be pretty good. They despatched my Squall the same day I ordered it, I received it 4 days later. (With a weekend in between)
But then,…… you do live in the ‘Back of Beyond’ don’t you. :lol:
K.
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Hi Keith,
Well no, Parcelforce don't operate here, but they hand over to a 'white van man' who delivers on their behalf.
I used to have all sorts of problems with them when we lived in Cornwall.
Glad you mentioned reading the instructions before fitting the VT unit (or not).
Bit of bed time reading by the sound of it.
Yes I've had very good service from SMC. Just a slight drop-off on the Squall.
And, as you say, I do live in the back of beyond. 8)
West Cork, being 37 minutes in time behind GMT (Local Hour Angle and all that) has it's own time.
And it's a lot slower than 37 minutes :lol:
Actually, most stuff takes a day longer than predicted when coming by courier from the UK.
An Post is very good though. Next day from Dublin, and the 'one before last' from SMC, sent by post, arrived in 2 days.
Ron
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BIG curves are the way to fly this Squall, I recon. :D
Doesn’t matter if they are horizontal or vertical. Full throttle, gently on the stick, making really high loops and very wide turns, with a slow roll during a close-in fly past. 8)
Have to remember to ease off the throttle after a while however, to let the power system cool down before the next roar around the sky.
I have to say it’s a little unnerving bring this, very sharp nosed plane, towards myself at full speed for a close-in pass. :twisted: I’m thinking, “If that thing hit me in the head it could ruin my entire day!” :(
Might be time to think about fitting a Vectoring Thrust unit soon. :?: .........
How are you getting on with yours Ron?……still reading the instructions?
K.
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Sounds really good Keith.
And after all, big curves are what the full size jets do, so realism rules.
Mine?
I'm ashamed to say it's only just got past the 'fitting servos' stage.
We had a small panic a couple of days ago when a water pipe started leaking in a big way. Problem was, it was buried in concrete under the tiled kitchen floor.
(who thinks up these ideas anyway :x )
But cutting it off each side of the kitchen, and running a hose around to the other side to link it up again, has restored normal water services - for the time being.
And in case you ask, no I'm not about to take a Kango Hammer to the kitchen floor.
So things aeronautical have taken a back seat for a while.
I did read the instructions, as you recommended - twice.
Well, I fell asleep in front of the fire the first time :roll:
I think I will fit the VT unit straight away.
After all, I've started - so I'll finish 8)
Ron
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Water, Water, everywhere, but not a drop to drink. :shock:
Oh Ron,……when I asked the question how you were getting on with your Squall I was hopping you tell me you were getting on “Swimmingly.” However it seems that such an answer would have been more actual, than metaphorical!
Well I’m sure in your capable hands you’ll find an answer to it all. :wink:
As for Dozing in front of the fire, that’s my answer to most of life’s problems………“I’ll think about it, ZZZZzzzzzzzz” :roll:
So, you’re going in at the deep end and fitting the VT straight away er? You brave fellow you! :clap: I’ll look forward to hearing how you get on with it.
Keep us posted!
Keith