Second model

[rogallo]

As Fred suggested another thread to discuss the topic of a progression model, I must say a foam flying wing it has to be. I will teach you the use of ailerons quickly with a model that is durable and will fly from tight spaces/sites.

I would suggest the Dreamflight Weasel Trek.

Any thoughts???

Rogallo

[Flamingo Flier]

Hi Ralph and happy new year. I see where you are coming from but wings of this style are just downright ugly. I think they may also be too fast and skittery for a true second model - there isn't long enough to think about what is happening to learn. Foam if you must but something that looks more like a glider would be better. I know nothing about the Hacker Lunak - they may be rubbish but something of that style and flying speed would be better I reckon.
Jim

[rogallo]

Hi Jim and happy New year to you too.

I love wings, you may not and that is fine. While they are not the most visually good shape to help with orientation, I can honestly say that they are far from skittish or jittery when set up correctly. Kevin O D form Cork brought his son out one afternoon and learned to fly (loops and rolls) after being given a well trimmed Weasel. He progressed from the basics with little or no interference form his father or me.

Cheap and cheerful, no fuselage to break, plenty of bad habits learned and a few good. A lot is down to personal taste. The hacker model not so great, or maybe I did not set it up right.

Anyway just a few thoughts, anyone else?

Rogallo

[billscottni]

If they were still available, I would have plumped for one of Stan Yeo's (Phoenix Models) EPP gliders something like the Synergy. I think a second mdoel should have ailerons, elevator & rudder to take you forward.
(I also love wings & planks, but think standard configuration will take a newbie further

[Flamingo Flier]

Bill expressed it much better than I - a model with rudder, elevator and ailerons is better at demonstrating 3 axis control. It is more clear what control is changing what attitude and what your trim is doing. I have owned a plank but not a foam wing and so I cannot speak with any authority on the subject - I spoke only from casual observation when I have often seen them launched and leap around under full throws of the stick for a few moments until they settle down. I know than there have been a few full size flying wings but I don't know if they were ever used as trainers
On a lighter note - there is a thing as pride of ownership. Strangely some people seem to think us model fliers are, well, a bit wierd. It nice to have a model you are proud to show them!

[rogallo]

I agree with all the points above, but since the first model was a traditional wing fuse and tail config, I was only suggesting a foamie in so far as you will end up flying it more than repairing, good to see a discussion forming though.

Fred, what do you think?

R

[Peter]

I think another consideration is widening the envelope of conditions you can fly in.  If you build a really light glider as your first model, build something that will handle windier conditions to follow. Or the other way round. That way you will be able to fly more. I am with the wing-fuselage-tail brigade! The old Middle Phase is not a bad option - I got good value out of mine but it was the rudder-elevator set-up.  The aileron version might be a good progression model.  A lot to be said for wings held on with rubber bands rather than bolted down and ready to be ripped out (I speak from experience!). 

[Happy Days]

I agree with Peter. The only downside of rubber band secured wings that I found was that not all models can easily facilitate rubber bands to hold their wings on. (they also add a tad of weight and drag.) For those models that use a screw to secure the wing I found that using nylon screws with a hole drilled through the head and just into the very top of the screws' shank helps create sufficient weakness to allow the screw to break, and the wings to separate from the fuse, in the event of an "unconventional landing"

[Fred]

Hi all

Sorry for the silence, have to work from times to times 

So, here is my 2 cents I would agree with the majority. A "standard" platform, in my view, would be better to learn for a few reasons:
> Shape: you get use to it. I know, I know, but that is important
> Better to start with all the options! Ailerons, RUDDER!!, Airbrakes etc etc than the other way.
> Stability: I like flying wings, but they can be a handful. They are fun to fly, easy to repair, but they are awkward to launch, see etc etc
> Size: It does matter! Bigger flies better. If that flies better, you fly a lot. If you fly a lot, you progress faster
> Versatile: The range of flying conditions without breaking to much of a sweat to stay in the air is in my opinion far wider on a conventional platform. Ballast or not in some cases. And the more often you fly...

I like the Weasel, but in a slope like Kilakee, you have to fly relatively far from you in the lift band... And all you see is a weird dot in the sky. Very hard to judge the position etc etc in my opinion, but the same for pretty much the flying wings as they tend to be smaller.

So, in that, if I had to pick a second glider, I would definitely go for an Easyglider or equivalent, like the Radian (not sure if that one is still made I have to say).
Coming from me, it's weird, but go for a foamy! They are easy to fix, even on the spot, and again, if after a bad landing, crash etc, you can fix the thing at the slope with a bit of cyano and tape, that will keep you going. And the more you fly...

Alternatively, because this is a learning machine, you can go for something a bit less glidery like an EasyStar. I know, I can here the cringe from here, but the goal is to learn to fly and progress Pretty gliders will come after.

So, in a nutshell, second model:

EasyGlider (electric or not)
Radian (if that still exist)

Powered alternatives:
Easystar
Bixler (Hobbyking stuff)
Rookie (graupner)

So some are not pretty machines, but they are here for you to learn until you are confident enough to launch and fly your pride and joy

Now... We need to talk radios!

What about we create a Beginners's section?

[billscottni]

I would go easyglider, phoenix 2000 over the Radian pro. Radian Po is an odd model, no 2 examples seem to fly the same and they can be difficult to get to fly well. There's also the other Multiplex models like Heron and Cularis.

If anyone can get their hands on decent EPP there are also plans available for Stan Yeo's old epp models, most of which were excellent flyers
http://phoenixmp.com/acatalog/Stan_s_EPP_Plans.html

[rogallo]

Stay away fro the Radian Pro, a complete pig compare to the Radian (original 3 channel, a dream)

R

[billscottni]

Stay away fro the Radian Pro, a complete pig compare to the Radian (original 3 channel, a dream)

R

Completely agree Ralph!

[AndyB]

This is all great information for a total novice like me. I like the plan of getting time in the air so I can build experience and the idea of a foam glider, so I don't have to spend time building it or crying when I crash land it.

The weasel looks absolutely great and it's so small and compact that it would not raise any alarms with the home office(wife), I could also take it anywhere and use it anywhere. But that being said its a totally different configuration to my RES so I fear that the confidence and learning I would gain from it would not transfer when I move back to fly my fragile RES build.

So from doing my research and looking at countless reviews, I am leaning towards the easy glider 4, and probably the receiver ready version. Which leads nicely on to the next topic:

What receiver pack would I need for the easy glider? ailerons x2, elevator x1, rudder x1 & throttle x1, so a 6 channel receiver? how do I monitor batter? I should consider something that would also cover me in the future. Do you guys tend to have one receiver and move it from glider to glider or a receiver for each?

[rogallo]

Hi Andy,
   when I spoke to you on the phone I hinted you would need a different radio. Loads to chose from unfortunately. Depends on
1) What mode you will fly (most of us apart from Fred fly mode 2 (stick arrangement  throttle (ratchet on left) elev on right
2)Do you want telemetry? feedback from model
3) How much do you want to spend?

https://bespokerotors.com/products/jumper-t16-pro-transmitter-with-hall-sensor-gimbals?_pos=2&_sid=f0c3f085d&_ss=r is worth looking at as it covers a bunch of different radios (different transmission methods)

Do a bit of reading and come back here with questions, or give me a buzz.

FrSky is also quite popular  https://uk.banggood.com/FrSky-Horus-X10-16-Channels-RC-Drone-Transmitter-Mode-2-Left-Hand-Throttle-Sliver-Amber-Color-p-1195943.html?rmmds=search&ID=512288&cur_warehouse=GWTR

Rogallo
 

[Kevin O'Donoghue]

I tend to agree with Ralph about the Weasel. Over two trips to Claragh we have had my 10 and 12 yr olds out for first flights on a Weasel. After fifteen minutes the instructors were drinking coffee and the lads were flying, literally and metaphorically. The younger lad had a go with my Ahi. When I quizzed him about which he preferred he grinned and said the Weasel. Is that an age thing? Maybe! And I guess the lads were having a first go at gliding rather than considering a second model. If you are already flying say a 3 channel RES model or a flat field thermal soarer and want a (second) model for the slope then I'd get a Weasel and move on later to an Easyglider before heading for crunchie country! You really can't break the Weasel but you can break the Easyglider!

Regarding radios? Honestly I give up. It depends on your budget really. I have learned that a bit like cars, we all love one brand and hate another, often for very irrational reasons. I started with Graupner/JR and recently took the plunge into Spectrum. I have not had any issue with my DX9 which I picked up at a good price. If I had researched the FRSky Horus at the time I might have gone that way too as they appear to be a great radio. Having said all of this, if I had €xxxk worth of a jet in the air, I'd probably like the brand reputation of Futaba / Jeti / JR etc. to control it!!!!!!!!! As I said, it's a bit like buying a car. How many of you still think that FIAT stands for Fix It Again Tomorrow?!!!!!!!!!!

Kevin