ISR Club and Insurance for Models.

[Fred]

Hi all,

So I launch this topic as this was a big topic of conversation at our last event.

The ISR Club is going to be the second club in Ireland (thanks Chris!! ) to allow members insured outside of the MACI membership and insurance.

We will also welcome to our events flyers insured for RC Flying Models, MACI or not. This will open memberships and meeting participation to all.

Keep in mind, we are only talking about Insurance for flying models here, all the other legal obligations (IIA declaration, training etc etc) still apply! This is the law!

So, now, this is not specifically against MACi of course, but the way things are going, I am not going to debate that here (but happy to do it in person with a drink ) MACI might not be in a position in the future to offer insurance (this is pure speculation of course, and can be total rubbish talk from me!), and we also can take of the advantages of the rules that specify you must be insured to fly RC in Ireland, but not to a particular Association, Federation, club or insurers.

There are lots of insurance that covers "drones" out there, but in my view, I strongly recommend to get insurance from a RC Flying Models specific insurer or broker. I am insured now for the past couple of years with another insurer for flying RC Models, and I am please to say that when I fly in events in France as an example, they are more than happy to accept me with it.

I only have my MACi insurance to give me access to clubs where the constitution only allows members with MACi insurance, and that is fine, but God knows, maybe this will change one day and other clubs will follow, but in the ISR now, as long as you are insured, IAA registered etc, come join us, fly with us! We will not ask to be a MACI insurance.

[billscottni]

On a 'similar' point I've been trying to clarify the situation with ROI flyers coming North to fly. Originally I was told they would have to do and pay for the CAA registration, but I received some clarification recently from the BMFA CEO :

I'm afraid that Andy's advice is correct and the complication is indeed a legacy of BREXIT as you've already identified.

The UK is now a 'Third Country' in terms of EU regulation and the drone registration scheme operated in the UK is valid only in the UK and is not recognised by the EU and vice-versa.

However, our Article 16 Authorisation does make provision for visiting pilots (see section 4.5 in the attached) which may help.

Essentially, visiting pilots can operate legally by displaying an Operator ID from a 'host'.  They would just need to take the CAA Flyer ID test which is free and lasts for 5 years. 

They would not need to take out any form of BMFA membership, because of further BREXIT complications which create difficulties in selling a membership with insurance benefits to anyone from outside of the UK.  However, we essentially accept them as members whilst visiting (just keep a log of who we are covering in this way) at no cost.

[Fred]

Oh, By the way! I am insured here: https://www.deutsche-modellsport-organisation.de/en/model-sports-insurances

I have an affiliate link if you want to join https://www.deutsche-modellsport-organisation.de/en/drone-insurances/private-drone-insurance?bonus_id=d1c05dde3ce120b85d96b6450fffaccf

I get all that covered for 51€/year for 10 million euros
I checked with them, I am fully insured as a resident in Ireland as I have to say, I was skeptical at first but that is one of the advantages of the Eu drone law.

Association liability insurance   Yes
Training ground liability insurance   Yes
Association legal expenses insurance   Yes
Teacher/student operation   Yes
FPV procedures with video eyewear or monitor   Yes
Number of covered models   unlimited
Coverage area   worldwide (except USA, countries at war and embargoed countries)
Deductible (for property damage, personal injury, financial loss)   none
Insured Models   All types of remote controlled models are included, model planes, vehicle models and ship models
Insured take-off weight   Model aircrafts of all types up to max. 150 kg, rocket models with a propellant of max. 50 g and a take-off mass of max. 50 kg.Drones of up to 25 kg
Control via smartphone and tablet   Yes
Indoor operation   Yes
Flying in the wild ("green meadow", in the field)/ flying outside of model flight areas   Yes
Participation in competitions / events / "races"   Yes
Rented/borrowed models   Yes
Number of insured pilots   1 in lower tariff, several in higher tariff (family, spouse, partner)
Endangering liability      Yes
Absolute liability   Yes
Legal expense insurance   Yes
Insurance company for the liability insurance:   Allianz Global Corporate & Specialty SE

There are more out there. Other flyers I know are covered via the DMFV which also offer insurance for flyers in Europe apparently. They also open their DMFV members fields to any insured members from the EU zone (as of, they ask for insurance, not necessarily from a National body), so good to know if you go flying in Germany for events or holidays for example.

Easy to send all of them emails with concerns about coverage here etc, I always found them very good to come back with answers.

[Fred]

On a 'similar' point I've been trying to clarify the situation with ROI flyers coming North to fly. Originally I was told they would have to do and pay for the CAA registration, but I received some clarification recently from the BMFA CEO :

I'm afraid that Andy's advice is correct and the complication is indeed a legacy of BREXIT as you've already identified.

The UK is now a 'Third Country' in terms of EU regulation and the drone registration scheme operated in the UK is valid only in the UK and is not recognised by the EU and vice-versa.

However, our Article 16 Authorisation does make provision for visiting pilots (see section 4.5 in the attached) which may help.

Essentially, visiting pilots can operate legally by displaying an Operator ID from a 'host'.  They would just need to take the CAA Flyer ID test which is free and lasts for 5 years. 

They would not need to take out any form of BMFA membership, because of further BREXIT complications which create difficulties in selling a membership with insurance benefits to anyone from outside of the UK.  However, we essentially accept them as members whilst visiting (just keep a log of who we are covering in this way) at no cost.

Yeah, since Brexit, you are a bit in a mess regarding flying Models, and Flying Models insurance in the EU. You don't avail to the good stuff we can get. And I heard also now in the UK, Drones needs a "R number", which I think includes RC Planes so I guess another headache for manufacturers if that is some sort of certification (no ideas, just saw that real quick tbh)

[Fred]

I knew I would get some use from Copilot one day 

That is was the robot is telling, which is what I read on the IIA site. Of course, this is an AI, so better double check everything they say!!

"Yes, you can hold an RC model liability policy from another EU country and fly in Ireland, as long as the policy covers operations in Ireland and your flying stays within Irish/EU rules. For hobby models under 20 kg, Ireland doesn’t legally require insurance—but the IAA recommends it, and clubs often insist on MACI membership/insurance to use their sites."

1) Insurance: what’s legally required in Ireland?

Hobby models (<20 kg MTOM): Under EU rules, model aircraft under 20 kg used for recreation are not subject to the EU’s mandatory aircraft operator insurance regulation (EC 785/2004). In Ireland this means liability insurance is not legally compulsory for typical RC hobby flying under 20 kg, though it is recommended. [Regulation...- EUR-Lex]
IAA guidance: The Irish Aviation Authority recommends third‑party liability insurance even for lighter recreational drones/models. If you operate outside “recreational” use or beyond the Open category, insurance becomes expected/required. [Do I need...? - iaa.ie], [Safety & R...ions - IAA]
Heavier or non‑recreational operations: If you operate ≥20 kg or in Specific/Certified categories (or commercially with requirements set in your authorisation/operational declaration), insurance is required under EU/IAA frameworks. [Regulation...- EUR-Lex], [Safety & R...ions - IAA]


Bottom line: For recreational RC models under 20 kg, Ireland doesn’t mandate insurance by law, but the IAA recommends it—and many clubs demand it as a condition of flying on their sites. [Do I need...? - iaa.ie], [Safety & R...ions - IAA]


Anyway, slightly off topic here, but kind of food for thought, interesting nonetheless but get insured!!

[billscottni]

On a 'similar' point I've been trying to clarify the situation with ROI flyers coming North to fly. Originally I was told they would have to do and pay for the CAA registration, but I received some clarification recently from the BMFA CEO :

I'm afraid that Andy's advice is correct and the complication is indeed a legacy of BREXIT as you've already identified.

The UK is now a 'Third Country' in terms of EU regulation and the drone registration scheme operated in the UK is valid only in the UK and is not recognised by the EU and vice-versa.

However, our Article 16 Authorisation does make provision for visiting pilots (see section 4.5 in the attached) which may help.

Essentially, visiting pilots can operate legally by displaying an Operator ID from a 'host'.  They would just need to take the CAA Flyer ID test which is free and lasts for 5 years. 

They would not need to take out any form of BMFA membership, because of further BREXIT complications which create difficulties in selling a membership with insurance benefits to anyone from outside of the UK.  However, we essentially accept them as members whilst visiting (just keep a log of who we are covering in this way) at no cost.

Yeah, since Brexit, you are a bit in a mess regarding flying Models, and Flying Models insurance in the EU. You don't avail to the good stuff we can get. And I heard also now in the UK, Drones needs a "R number", which I think includes RC Planes so I guess another headache for manufacturers if that is some sort of certification (no ideas, just saw that real quick tbh)

mental, these are coming in in 2028 and probably remote ID  https://www.caa.co.uk/drones/getting-started-with-drones-and-model-aircraft/class-marks/