GliderIreland - Ireland RC Forum - Flying Model forum in Ireland
Gliders => Slope Soaring => Topic started by: Happy Days on December 24, 2011, 11:35:26 AM
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I’ve finally managed to get my hands on a 4mtr Alpina.
It’s old but, apart from a few little issues such as corroded screw threads and like, it’s in good condition. Just have a couple of issues that I can’t solve at the moment.
1/ The covering on the wings, which are obeeche covered foam cores, has ‘ripples’ on it. I’ve tried ironing them flat but what happens is that an even greater area of covering come unstuck. I’ve tried using different heat settings on the iron but to no avail so far. Any suggestions guys???
2/ There were no instructions with this plane, which is a multiplex model, so does anyone have any idea what the control surface movements should be and where is the correct CoG? :?:
Oh! And one more thing,…..MERRY CHRISTMAS :D
Keith.
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:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
well done keith looking forwards to seeing it in the new year
happy christmas
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Loopking forward to see it too Keith :clap:
Manual : http://www.tangent-modelltechnik.com/de/img/pdf/building_instructions_alpina_pro.pdf
And CoG at 100mm from LE at the root :D
This is for the Pro version, but the only difference with yours, is the Pro have more carbone I believe...
For your covering, they might be air bubbles. Do some holes (lots) with a needle, and try again.
And Merry Christmas to you all too :D
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Keith have a 4001.
Fred,owner of an original alpina :D
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I’m told, by the previous owner, that what I have is a 4001. I’ve got no documents relating to it at all. However the info shown in the link Fred posted matches exactly what I have, including the part in the manual about the wing joiner not coming into contact with the fuse.
I’ve finished all the little repairs that were needed and now I just have to get rid of these “air bubbles” on the wing covering and she should be good to fly. :D
Looking at the weather forecasts I’d say Wednesday would be a good day. I’m really looking forward to putting this big girl into the air and seeing how she performs, although I’ll probably be quite gentle with her for the first few flights. Don’t want to break my new toy before I’ve had a chance to get used to her! :(
Fred, have you managed to get one as well??
Right, it’s time for me to put on a silly paper hat and get back to the party. (sniff sniff,) “Okay, who’s got the spliff? 8) pass it round. Share & share alike, those are the rules in my house!” :lol:
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Good stuff Keith :D
No, mine is an original Alpina from 1980 (before the Magic :P )
And still with the Original "Multiplex Team" colours :D
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/Fred/DSCF6251.jpg)
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Very nice Keith !
For rpples in covering I use a hot air gun on low heat.
I recently purchased a Multiplex Flamingo competition, it looks like a baby brother of the Alpine.
Merry Christmas to you all !
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Hey Richard, you’ve been keeping a very low profile these last few weeks, nice to hear from you again. :D
Just looked up the flamingo competition, it does look very similar doesn’t it. We’ll have to compare ………….(Planes I’m talking about you rude person you! :oops: )
As for the ripples on my wings. There are dozen’s of them, thin little ripples in the covering. I haven’t tried a hot air gun, mostly because I don’t have one, but Fred’s idea of piercing then ironing the ripples seems to work. (It must be very boring always being right, but Fred seems to thrive on it! :roll: )
Just as an aside, a little birdy tells me that you’re producing a video special for the forum to feast it’s eyes (and ears) on at New Year. Must say I’m greatly looking forward to it! :D
Right, I’m off to stick pins in some more nipples :shock: (Ouch!) Er,…sorry, that should read ‘Ripples.’
Keith
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Hi Keith, try the good wifes hairdrier on high heat !
The hot air shrinks the covering without sticking it tio the wing.
5minutes should do each wing, Be careful not to wharp it !!!!!!!!
This Christmas has been an extremely busy time for me and I was not at home the last few weeks.
Now I am home and I'M DOSED WITH MAN FLU :oops:
The video may have to wait !
Have a great Holiday and best regards to Mandy.
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well done keith on getting that alpina. i wish you many years of most enjoyable flying with it. i have one myself and it's a great 'must bring with you' model.
did you download the manual like fred suggested? if you can't, i can send you my one. it's full of good advice about setting up the alpina and the trimming advice can also apply to other models.
hi richard, you have my sympathies re the man flu. just getting over it myself, spent 2 weeks feeling bl--dy awful.
looking forward to the evenings starting to stretch out soon, middle of jan we should see a bit of a difference. roll on the spring!!
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Hi Gerry, and thanks for your good wishes.
Yes, I downloaded fred’s manual and very useful it’s proved too. Interestingly it recommends a 50% aileron differential which makes this the first model in my “fleet” with aileron diff. I’d never have put that into the controls had it not been for the manual.
I’ve removed 99% of the ripples from the wing covering and I’m hoping it wont be too gusty to launch her tomorrow. Keep your figures crossed for me! :)
Longer days & new adventures to look forward to,…….good to be alive aint it. :D
Richard, you poor old darling you. As you’re a good friend I’ll tell you the secret of an old English cure for flue.
You’ll need a bottle of Aspirin and a bottle of Brandy. (Actually it’s an Anglo - French cure.)
What you have to do is rub the aspirins on your chest, :shock: and drink the bottle of Brandy. :D I’m not sure how the aspirins are supposed to benefit you, but the brandy will certainly remove all feelings of being unwell! :lol:
B.T.W Richard, which slope are you taking me to when I come North in the spring? 8)
Healthy Keith, looking forward to a good days flying tomorrow :P
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I tried the brandy and now have a hangover thats worse than the man flu !
Thanks Keith for the great cure :( lol
i really would like you to fly on the North slope of the slieve Gallion, it has mega lift !
My next fav place is Andrews slopes on Benavenagh.
Between these 2 places we will thrill you lol
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I tried the brandy and now have a hangover thats worse than the man flu !
Thanks Keith for the great cure :( lol
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
I shall look forward to flying wherever you choose Richard. I have great faith in you! :wink:
K.
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Hi Keith,
I'd advise a little caution re tomorrow.
Gales forecast.
Very flyable.
However it might be advisable to hold for some nice steady lift so you can trim, set and trim the crow etc.
That is big and fairly heavy - carries a lot of energy.
The crow may need aileron trim and will need a mix to elevator.
Good luck.
Brian
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Hi Brian,
I too see there are gales forecast for tomorrow. 8)
What I might do is take the Alpina with me and if it’s calm enough I’ll try flying her. But if the winds are gale force I’ll just fly my smaller models.
I wouldn’t want to try launching a 4 mtr bird on my own in 100K winds! Kinda like asking for disaster isn’t it :roll:
K.
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hi keith,
re ail. diff.....well worth putting in, very effective on gliders with long wingspans especially when travelling at low air speeds.
re ye olde englishe grammer/spellings.....
i'm just wondering if you've been trying a lot of that medicine yourself!!! 'flu' is what richard is suffering from, it being a shortened version of 'influenza'. 'flue' is a device, usually tubular in cross-section, used for evacuating smoke, steam etc. from internall to externall of a building, structure,engine ect.
if you get flying tomorrow, have a great time and wrap up well. we don't want you getting all 'flued' up over new year!!
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re ye olde englishe grammer/spellings.....
i'm just wondering if you've been trying a lot of that medicine yourself!!! 'flu' is what richard is suffering from, it being a shortened version of 'influenza'. 'flue' is a device, usually tubular in cross-section, used for evacuating smoke, steam etc. from internall to externall of a building, structure,engine ect.
:lol: :lol: Oh, I laughed when I read that Ger! Nothing like being caught out at you own game !!!! Well done. :clap: :clap:
I must concede one point to Mr. Buckley :wink:
keith
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Keith,
Yes, your troubles might only be beginning after the launch.
It's the first few landings that I'd worry about - until you have some feel for it and get the crow set up good.
In strong conditions you have to have it for Mt L lz's.
Brian
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I stood on the west ridge of big L today, Alpina balanced in one hand, tx in the other.
I’d set out a plan of action for myself.
Provided the model was stable and controllable I’ll just float her around the skies for ten minutes, keeping her in low rate, and get the ‘feel’ of this plane. Then bring her in for a gentle landing. That was my plan.
What do that say about, 'Best made plans?'
It took about three minutes before the desire to try a loop became overwhelming.!
Up to a good height, steep dive, gently back on the stick and hold it there. The wings flexed somewhat coming out of the loop but all was well. She exited the loop with quite a bit of speed so I thought of repeating that manoeuvre and adding a roll after the loop.
This experiment didn’t work quite so well. The loop was fine but the roll rate was very slow. In fact she didn’t complete the roll before I cancelled it after only 90 degrees, because she rolled so slowly.
I thought to myself, “This can’t be right. The Alpina is supposed to be an aerobatic model.” (I switched over to high rate control.)
I let the plane cruise around the sky a little while longer before switching in the aileron / flap mix and took her up high again. Didn’t bother with a loop this time, just put her into a dive, levelled out and pushed the stick hard over.
I was rewarded with the sight of a graceful 360 degree roll, and she still maintained a fair bit of speed having only lost a couple of meters of height.
I could feel a smile creeping across my face as I knew I’d now combine the two manoeuvres.
Up, up she went. I put her into a dive, then changed my mind. Instead of a loop first, I levelled her off. Rolled her 180 degrees. Pulled back on the stick. Completed one & half loops. Levelled off at the bottom of the half loop. Pushed the stick hard over, and heard a voice shout “Yes”. I turned and looked behind myself, saw nobody was there, and concluded it must have been me that had shouted.
And so to the landing;
My first attempt was a complete cock-up. Far too high on the approach and far too fast. Out into the lift she went to go round for another try. Round she came again onto her final approach, much lower this time but still quite fast. I put in some crow, and she ballooned upwards. I pushed forward on the stick and increased the crow. She slowed up surprisingly quickly, but just kept gaining height. Out and round she went again.
“Okay, this is it,” I said to myself, “third time lucky.”
I brought her in low, started applying crow braking, compensated for ballooning with forward pressure, suddenly she dropped out of the air, (my bowels became very loose.) I reduced the crow, maintained a little forward pressure and prayed she wouldn’t hit the deck. She didn’t, and once again she flew out into the lift.
By this time my lips had gone dry and I noticed a very unsavoury aroma, which I put down to the numerous sheep shits that were laying around the landing area. Although I could be wrong about that.
I thought to myself, “I’ve got to get this girl on the ground. May be I’m trying too hard, perhaps I should give up on landing and just fly her around for a bit, and then try later………….No, you’re procrastinating Keith,…land her now!”
This is what happened.
The turn onto the final approach was a very low, the wing tip nearly clipped the ground.
I levelled her off and applied the crow too soon. Plane lost a lot of speed and would not have made it to the landing area. I eased off the crow. As the plane got closer to the landing area I re-applied crow, pushed forward on stick, put in a little aileron to keep wings level & rudder to keep her facing the wind,….and she sat down on top of the heather. Perfect!
I enjoyed myself on Mt Lienster today, I learnt a lot, and that’s what I like.
Keith
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Way to go Keith! once you get a few more flights under your belt, you will be flying rolls along the slope face in no time. I made it onto the slope today also, for an hour at a small slope 10mins from my house. i haven't flew for weeks so a little slow on the sticks to start with. I flew the extreme and another small ME 109 which I purchased from HK before Xmas.
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/pssme109.JPG)
ME 109 PSS model converted from electric.
The model was a little tail heavy, however after I added a little down trim she flew great, however this model is not for the faint hearted, she is fast and will tip stall if you let the speed drop off on the turns, It was designed for high speed pylon racing!
(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/JohnPearson/glenannearmagh.JPG)
My local slope at Glenanne, the lift is fair with a west wind blowing.
It was nice to get out today and fly, looking forward to seeing your new 4m glider in the air keith.
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Congratulations on the Maiden Keith :clap:
And welcome to a brand new world! :D
Congrats to Mr P. too for the maiden of his new PSS :clap: Looking forward to see that one, looks really cool! And nice local slope too! Looks pretty descent to me!
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Thanks for your comments Fred + John.
John; I believe Bill got hold of Joe’s old Spitfire, didn’t he? No doubt there will be a few dog fights with your 109 during the coming months! 8)
I keep hearing about you and your ‘Extreme.’ I get the feeling that that is your favourite model, er?
And as for a ‘brand new world’ Fred, well I’m looking forward to it. And hopefully, some time this year, the Mu28 will be joining in too! :D
So what were you flying today Fred?
K.
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Yes keith, the extreme is a great model, it will fly in any wind, however puffin models for some reason will not post these kits to Northern Ireland,??? your loss puffin!
Fred did you fly the quark 2m today?????
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Hey Keith,John
No Quark for me, planned to go for a very quick flight with the 15 as the wind was bit off the slope (that gives some rather interresting conditions at this slope!) and of course, regretted it after John flew his Quark.
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jammy dodgers the lot of ye!!!!! i went to west clare for a day out with 'shewhomustbeobeyed'. didn't bring a glider and was kicking myself when we got to spanish point. good breeze straight in off the sea, gulls sloping to their heart's delight off the sand dunes and all i could do was look at them. damn and blast!!!
congrat's to all on 1st flights (hate that expression 'maiden flight') . brilliant discription of your flights keith, felt like i was there with you.
hope to get out mid week myself, forecast looks good for wed/thur
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Hi Keith,
Well done.
However it seems that you need to work on the crow set up.
I would advise checking the aileron trim first ,with the crow fully deployed.
If your aileron trim is good with no crow and at the fully deployed stage it will be ok through the range.
Then get your crow to elevator mix set. Again at full crow.
It then wont be too far off through the range.
To do this I position the model above the LZ and to one side at 70 to 100 ft , with no speed, just flying , ie at a safe height'
This is really worth spending your next flight or two on as once set up the landing work-load is greatly reduced.
It is difficult to set a crow up to work well at different speeds ; very slow and very fast.
You don't need a fast model when landing so set it up for slow speed.
Then to land get the model in a similar position ,but this time behind the LZ by say 50 to 100 M. Again flying but not much speed and at a 'safe' height
Then use the crow to induce sink.
The trick is to get a balance between sink rate and forward speed.
When you get this sorted you will have a good landing 'method'.
Hope this makes sense - it's difficult to put in a brief way.
Brian
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Wow! That was a long post from you Brian. I’m very impressed. :clap:
I think I get what you’re alluding to. Today my problem was trying to ascertain exactly how much kinetic energy this model has, and how much it would balloon. At the moment the down elevator mix at full crow is as per the manual, which we both know is never enough. :roll:
As for testing the crow braking at a ‘safe’ height over the Landing Zone,…………The problem I’ve found with other models is that the airflow at a ‘safe’ height isn’t the same as it is at low, (landing) height. So what works well at 100ft above the LZ doesn’t necessarily seem so good at 10ft. But I certainly take your point about setting up the controls to reduce the work load during landing.
Looking at the weather forecasts for next week I don’t think I’ll be doing much gliding so I’ll probably bump into to at the clubhouse. :)
c u then
Keith
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Keith,
It is not about the height or the air at a height.
The best you can do is set it up so it is good at a 'speed' that is appropriate to a landing approach.
Brian
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Well done Keith on your maiden :clap:
I am not a fan of crow braking but as Brian stated your just going to have to play with it until you get the desired settings for you.
I am envious of you all getting flying time :evil:
JP, that's a really nice slope !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Andrew is also out today on the coast flying his mini Quark !
I am plastering my chimmy breast yuk yuk
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Now why does it not surprise me to hear that Richard is getting plastered? And on a Sunday at that! :shock: (Is nothing sacred anymore?) Well at least it’s better than man flu. :)
I know another person who doesn’t like crow braking,……..I could hear his voice in my head yesterday :!: repeatedly telling me that air brakes are better. :roll:
Do you know who I mean? :?: (Very knowledgeable, dark hair, spectacles, lives in Churchtown, Dublin………..I’ll say no more!)
K :lol:
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Hi Keith, I had 2 days on the kengo hammer and it took me a day to stop shaking lol
I am hoping a months hard work should see my home in some sort of habitable condition.
I have one problem !
JP is off on hols for a few weeks and the Armagh fantom will be misleading me to the slope lol.
I have crow bracking on the DG600 and I just have not had enough air time to set it up to my liking.
Having watched Fred using his airbrakes , I am convinced he is correct in all his statements.
Keith,
The summary of your maiden brought tears of laughter to my dust filled eyes, Mr.Keith you have a way with words :clap:
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Thank you for your complements Richard. (It makes a change from the normal stream of insults. :lol: )
Personally I’ve always considered work, whether it be of the hard or soft variety, to be a much overrated pastime. :evil: I find doing what one enjoys to be far more palatable. :D Therefore I tend to apply myself to the latter, rather than the former! (In other words, …..I’m a lazy bastard :wink: )
Good luck with working on your house, I shall inspect the final product during my progress through Ulster in the spring! :lol:
K.
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I bring that back from the dead :D
Fancy a new "old" Alpina...
Topp Rippin! (https://ssl-id.de/rc-tronics-topp-rippin.de/Shop/product_info.php?cPath=1&products_id=623&osCsid=k8vmsvfmm439c1buo6imhmnmv2)