GliderIreland - Ireland RC Forum - Flying Model forum in Ireland

Gliders => Scale => Topic started by: lothar4862 on August 26, 2009, 21:08:09 PM

Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: lothar4862 on August 26, 2009, 21:08:09 PM
Hi out there,

as promised, I start a little picture thread about my newest Horten Nurflügel (flying-wing) project.

The Horten XIV (14) glider was designed by Reimar Horten in the beginning of 1945. His Idea was to build a clubglider based on the HIV high-performance wing. I made a little research about the real plane. There is omly a little sketch in the book "Nurflügel" (R. Horten/ P.F. Selinger) and some drawings of the center sektion at the Nurflügel-Archiv at Mr. Uden.

The Scale will be 1:4. This makes a span of 4 m with about 5 kg. The aerodynamic of the model is designed by Uwe H. and Andrès C. at www.ig-horten.de.

So here we are. First of all I made a drawing of the wing:

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/Grundriss.JPG)


Afterwards I imported the profiles to CAD and made the drawings of the ribbs. Well, this is a longer story. Especially the unusual Center-section has it's geometric problems...

That's, how it looks on my computer:

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/Zeichnung.JPG)

After some weeks of CAD, it's time for the milling maschine to get busy.

Here is the result:

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/21082009%20002.jpg)

Regards

Lothar
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: lothar4862 on August 26, 2009, 21:14:34 PM
Hy friends,

the last days I started building the center sections. There will be two of them. Of course one built as scale as possible for me, have a look here:

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/26082009%20002.jpg)

and, because I have no slope and don't want to depend on a tow, an "experimental center-section".

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/23082009%20002.jpg)

This one will get a motor with a pusher-prop. So I can learn to fly this plane in my area, somebody from Argentina called it "German Pampa" :wink:  

Regards

Lothar
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: Fred on August 27, 2009, 09:12:07 AM
:clap:  Looking really good Lothar !
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: Alan_Perse on August 27, 2009, 13:46:18 PM
That looks great Lothar  :clap:  :clap:  :D . Did you use Compufoil or Profili for the wing ribs?
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: lothar4862 on August 27, 2009, 14:16:55 PM
No Alan,

none of them. We design the wings in "Nurflugel.exe" from Frank Ranis. This program is able to export the profiles to dxf-files. With those files I draw my ribbs. Every ribb is different from all the others bcause of the not linear washout and so on.

The whole thing is complicated for me to explain it in german, so please don't ask me for this in english :oops:

Regards

Lothar
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: Alan_Perse on August 27, 2009, 18:31:18 PM
Quote from: "lothar4862"
The whole thing is complicated for me to explain it in german, so please don't ask me for this in english :oops:Lothar


It's Ok. I think I know what you mean.
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: lothar4862 on August 28, 2009, 22:39:25 PM
Hi there,

the last days I worked a bit on the Scale-center-section. My Pilot Guillermo made his first test how he will feel in the plane. The prone position is a bit new for him, but he feels ok:

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/28082009%20005.jpg)

I also glued the first ribbs on the building board and checked, if it compares good to the center-sections:

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/28082009%20001.jpg)


(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/28082009%20003.jpg)

Regards

Lothar
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: lothar4862 on August 30, 2009, 22:17:07 PM
Here we are:

all ribbs are glued to the board. The spars of one wing are assembeld:

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/30082009%20003.jpg)

Regards

Lothar
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: billscottni on August 31, 2009, 13:15:19 PM
Beautiful work Lothar!

I'm struggling for enthusiasm to do any building at the moment and haven't flown at all since April.
I'm hoping to fly at Mount Leinster in September.
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: Happy Days on August 31, 2009, 19:03:31 PM
Lothar that is fantastic, clearly Guillermo is enjoying it as well, he looks like he's making love to it :shock:  And has been doing so for many hours! (A better man than me :clap: )

This build seems to be coming on at a remarkable speed, you'll have it finished in no time!

Well done :D

Keith


(Er,..............you wouldn't care to build me one would you :wink: )
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: lothar4862 on September 02, 2009, 20:45:42 PM
Well,

today the other wing is at the same point as the right one was on the last picture. So all spars are done. The worst job on every wing for me is to make boxes with the spars to get real strong beams.

So I decided to plank the upside of the right wing first.

Here is the result:

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/02092009.jpg)

The weight of the wing is now about 950 gramms. I hope not to come over 1500 gramms with all servos and the rest of the plywood-covering.

@Keith,

I am so sorry, but this build takes a much longer time as it looks at the moment. At the beginnig it always does big steps forward, but as more I come to an end, it takes maore time. But why don't You build an own projekt?

@Bill,

may be this here is a bit motivation not to struggle but to build??

Regards

Lothar
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: Happy Days on September 02, 2009, 21:40:38 PM
Another very good development in your build, Lothar. :clap:

I'm in the process of building a model. It's another Phase 6, like the model you saw me flying the first time we were on Mount Lienster with Sabastian and Alexandar.
The new Phase 6 will have a "Full House Wing," unlike the first one which only had ailerons.
I'm hoping to have it finished for next weekends Fly-In on Mt. L. :D
Just hope the weather improves. It's rained almost every day for the last 2 weeks :cry:  (May be I should move to Spain :wink: )

K.
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: lothar4862 on September 08, 2009, 19:30:25 PM
Here we are:

both wings are ready covered on the upper side. This allowes to put the whole plane together and make "beauty-pics":

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/08092009%20006.jpg)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/08092009%20008.jpg)

Now I have to save some Euros for servos and other stuff, before I can clos the other side.

Regards

Lothar
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: Alan_Perse on September 08, 2009, 19:56:59 PM
Wow. That looks beautiful, well done  :clap:  :clap: . It's a shame you will have to cover all that lovely woodwork.
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: Happy Days on September 08, 2009, 20:44:44 PM
Saving the Euro’s is easy Lothar. :)  You just tell Hedi that she must not spend so many euros at the shops! :lol:

You will have your servos by next week! It’s as simple as that. :D  

(Of course,…..you might also be divorced by next week :( )
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: lothar4862 on September 08, 2009, 21:10:21 PM
Ouuhhh Keith,

Your Ideas were better some weeks ago :lol:  I remeber Heidi said: "Keith is a fine man I believe."

I think it's better, that she doesn't read this thread over here :wink:

Alan,

I will not cover the whole woodwork. I'll cover only the open areas with silk. You will see, looks like my Colibri in some weeks. I love thís wooden planes to much.

Regards

Lothar
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: Fred on September 09, 2009, 14:19:17 PM
:clap:  :clap:  Very nice build Lothar !
Quick question, the external airbrakes, are they used as "virtual" rudder ?  :?:

One day, I will do one ! Very unusual shape, and looks really good in flight !
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: lothar4862 on September 09, 2009, 17:40:59 PM
Fred,

quick answer:

The real Hortens used them as "Side rudders". I build this only one time into a wing before. But this wing is to big to "go just a bit flying" to make many experiments. So I decided to make them into the HXIV too, to find out how good or bad they are working. It's learning by doing. The big wing takes the side down, where the brakes are driven aout of the wing.

I'll see.

Regards

Lothar
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: lothar4862 on September 24, 2009, 17:45:55 PM
Hi there,

the first experimental version of the Horten XIV is in the air:

http://www.rcmovie.de/video/eeef69b5ba034cb7577b

She's built by Andrès Chavarria.

Enjoy the video!

Regards

Lothar[/url]
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: Fred on September 29, 2009, 10:54:00 AM
Hi Lothar,
Well.. That's a fantastic model here ! And built in lightspeed too !  :clap:

Really like it a lot !  =P~
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: lothar4862 on September 29, 2009, 14:59:53 PM
Hi,

Andrès is at the moment in front of me, because he has 8 weeks "parents-vacation" at the moment. Also he wanted to find out, if there are aerodynamic problems with this plane, because he was very much involved in the devolopment of the wing. So he hurried up like hell.

The last weeks I've been busy and will be busy the next few weeks  with finishing and ending the big HXII. Then there is another much smaller projekt on the workbench as a "block" for the XIV. But I am sure, the XIV will fly at a slope next spring.

to many projects and Ideas.....

Regards

Lothar
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: Happy Days on September 29, 2009, 18:07:15 PM
NEXT SPRING!!! :shock:  :shock:

 :?: That will be the year 2010. :(

Put it in a large package and ship it over to Ireland. I'll fly it for you off Mount Lienster.
I'll even send you a video of the event if you like! :D

Don't you think that is a generous offer Lothar? 8)

K.
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: lothar4862 on September 29, 2009, 20:29:31 PM
Keith,

You are the finest british man I ever met. So generous, so helpfull, just great in everything.

What more can I say, than

Thank You very much!

for this offer.

Best Regards

Lothar

btw... I did`n't meet many britsh men in my life :wink:
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: Happy Days on September 29, 2009, 20:33:54 PM
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: lothar4862 on January 16, 2010, 23:45:05 PM
Hey guys,

sorry for not updating the thread for some weeks. I was a bit busy building the new H XII. She's waiting for days without snow, to make her maiden flights:

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/HXII%20fertig.jpg)

My Colibri also needed new wings after a bad receiver fault short after the Ireland trip. Another reason to stop the HXIV Projekt:

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/Colibrifertig.jpg)

This one is also waiting for a maiden flight. Due to the weather over here, it's better to stay in the basement and working on the XIV.

So what did I do the last days:
I completed the experimental center section with a motor:

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/16012010%20001.jpg)

and glued the Multiplex Multilocks to the plane. This was a bit difficult, because of the unusual geometric arrangement of this plane.

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/10012010%20001.JPG)

At the time I am mounting the servos in the wing and afterwards I am  covering the lower side of the wing with 0,6 mm plywood. This is nearly done. Hope to be ready tomorrow.

Than I will have to wait for some new 2,4 GHz receivers.

I'll keep You informed.

Regards

Lothar
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: billscottni on January 16, 2010, 23:49:56 PM
Cracking model Lothar. Yet another model comes off the Lothar Horten production line :clap:  :clap:
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: Happy Days on January 17, 2010, 05:59:02 AM
I had to smile when I saw your new work Lothar. You are obviously a master craftsman who loves what you do, and you do it very well.
I salute you, Lothar. :clap:

I’d been wondering why we’d not heard anything from you on the forum. (I thought may be you and Heidi had gone off on a second honeymoon :oops: )

Devoted to the Horten design and with so many fine models built I’m surprised Aufwind doesn’t want to produce an article on you and your projects. :?:

Very glad to read you’ve changed over to 2.4ghz…… No chance of someone else’s Tx crashing your model.

Keep up the good work old friend! :clap: :clap:

Keith
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: Fred on January 17, 2010, 10:13:11 AM
Very very nice job here Lothar !
I like the XII a lot !!  :clap:  :clap:
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: lothar4862 on January 17, 2010, 11:27:23 AM
Thanks for all Your good words friends.

I hope to see some of You at the Wasserkuppe this summer. So there are people I can talk in a language I can understand :D

For Keith.... keep patient please. I believe in one of the next magazines there will be something about the small 2 m HXII. You remember her at Your airfield where we met the first time? It was a team work, so this article had to be written by the team. This took a bit time. But as i know Phil Gardemin, it will be a nice Article in the mag.

Regards

Lothar
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: lothar4862 on February 19, 2010, 20:59:39 PM
Well,

after weeks of snow and Ice, I got a bit depressed and lazy. Yes, I was some evenings laying on the sofa..... :cry:

But today there was green between the the Ice on our airfield and I went out flying for some minutes. Afterwards I was really motivated to work on the XIV. I started finishing the wings. I painted them with some glaze from clou, that the wood will get the same red touch as on the XII above.

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/19022010%20018.jpg)

regards

Lothar
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: Happy Days on February 19, 2010, 21:45:46 PM
Laying  on the sofa….=  terrible :(

Working on the model = excellent. :clap:

I’ve been trying to work out what the numbers 4862 mean. (Lothar 4862)
I’m going to hazard a guess and say they are your date of birth. But to work out your birthday depends on whether you’ve used the European or American way. i.e. Your D.o.B. is either the 4th of August 1962,…….or the 8th of April ‘62

I don’t think you’re Leo, I think your more of an Aries so I’ll go for the 8th April! :P  

All a bit off topic I know. :oops: (Just thinking out loud really)
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: lothar4862 on February 19, 2010, 21:54:18 PM
Well Keith,

good combined.... but I am leo..... 4th August is fine to me. :lol:

In Germany we always us the TTMMYYYY system.


Regards

Lothar
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: lothar4862 on February 24, 2010, 20:57:25 PM
Hi there,

I was busy in finishing. The wings are covered and painted. Now I will concentrate on the center-sections. One will be scale and one with a Motor.

The pics are fresh from today (The snow too :!: )

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/24022010%20002.jpg)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/24022010%20004.jpg)

Regards

Lothar
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: billscottni on February 24, 2010, 21:05:02 PM
Model looks great Lothar :clap:
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: Happy Days on February 25, 2010, 18:18:36 PM
That’s a big bird you’ve got there. Nice looking too. :clap:  (Looks much better than you sleeping on the sofa :roll:  ) :lol:

Don’t worry about the snow Lothar, it helps to “smooth” the air flow over the ground. Makes the flying easier!
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: lothar4862 on April 26, 2010, 08:00:56 AM
Well,

over the last days I did the maiden flights with a motor-center-section.

Surprise! It's flying!

Attached pictures are from yesterday. this was the fourth flight. I am getting used to it now and I am loosing the nervous feelings now.

The bungee-start:

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/25042010%2520007.jpg)

in the air:

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/25042010%2520036.jpg)

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/25042010%2520033.jpg)

Arriving for landing:

(http://www.gliderireland.net/forum/images/uploads/lothar4862/25042010%2520040.jpg)

She's a beauty in the air, pretty fast and she needs a lot of area for manouvres.

Lothar
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: Happy Days on April 26, 2010, 08:17:12 AM
That’s one BIG bird Lothar! Glad you’re getting used to flying her, she has a great outline against the sky. 8)

I ‘Take my hat off to You’ Lothar. You’re a true model maker. :D  Well Done!

Keith
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: lothar4862 on May 25, 2010, 20:28:05 PM
Thank You Keith.

last weekend i've been with my friend Andrés. We had a great time together talking and flying our wings. His wife made a nice video of our XIV's together in the air:

http://vimeo.com/11975482

enjoy.

Regards

Lothar
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: Happy Days on May 26, 2010, 09:37:24 AM
Very good Lothar, :clap:  they look very graceful in the air together. Tell me; is it as true for Hortens as for other planes , that the bigger ones are easier to land than the smaller ones? :?:

From the video, these big Hortens’ seem to come in very fast, for landing :shock: , then just “stop” and sit down on the ground! :)
Title: Horten XIV building thread
Post by: lothar4862 on May 26, 2010, 10:58:01 AM
Well Keith,

the problem with those Hortens is the gliding ratio. They are faster than typical size-similar sail-planes. This makes landing so difficult. We use airbrakes to come down and in the last seconds. While landing, the plane faces very much the "bottom effect". It want's to glide and to glide and glide..... It's really not easy to land sometimes. :?

This "just stop" is in real quite nice fast and exciting.... It looks better in the video than in reality. :wink:

ähm the bigger the easier.... I feel, the bigger as more diffucult to land. See above. For example, You remember the little XII at Your airfield? This one is today easy, because in relation to the big one it gets down as fast as a stone.

Airfields can be rather short with a Hortenplane. But that's what I like, they are different from the rest 8)

Regards

Lothar