Building advice required...

[angry_muppet]

After having up the Big L on the September fly-in, I decided that I really needed a "proper" glider. The expendature has been approved by the Financial Director  

To teach me a little, I've decided to copy Justin and build my own.  It'll be fun.  (I say now before Gillian kills me for getting glue everywhere and generally ignoring her over the winter!)

Anyway, first dilemma - how big?  I had considered using an A3 sheet of foamboard for each wing.  On actually seeing an A2 sheet, I'm thinking A3 may be too small?

I had looked up a tutorial on how to make a wing from foamboard; it advised allowing a 1" overlap on the bottom surface to use as a control surface.  I'm not so sure on that - I prefer the aesthetics of a proper aerilon control surface on the outer half of the wing.  To do that requires a servo mounted out in the wing which may complicate the build?  Also how does one decide how large the surfaces have to be?
Also, the question arises as to which style of wing. I can go for the "basic" squared plank a la Cessna or Piper small A/C or a single or double taper.

Third thing - Where do I get my hands on balsa sheets and blocks in Ireland?

Fourth - The tail boom.  Justin had a hollow carbon tube and the elevator control rod fed through that.  I have a 4mm carbon rod from a crashed C182 foamie which I think would be best used for the same purpose in this build? I assume HK will have a similar thing - haven't looked that up yet.

Finally - what would the best method of affixing the tailplane assembly to a CF tube be?

So, after all that, I'd be of the persuation to go for a "forward swept" taper wing - ie the leading edge perpendicular to the fuse and the trailing edge root further aft than the tip.  Control surfaces perhaps 1/3 of the wingspan at the outer edges.

If I can draft a plan, I'll attach to this post.

[Happy Days]

You’re going to ignore the love of your life,….for an entire winter!!!  sacré bleu :shock:

I think your adventurousness in building from scratch is something to be admired David. However, without wishing to pour cold water on your desire, (Heaven forbid!) I’m wondering if your plan might have a slight unforeseen pit fall.

Suppose this model that you build doesn’t seem to want to fly. (That can happen you know)
Question: How will you be able to tell whether the model is inherently unstable/unflyable, or whether you flying skills are not up to the job? :?:

I’m wondering if it might not be worth considering learning to fly first, and then start building avon garde models......just a thought :wink:

L. Keith

[angry_muppet]

Oh Keith, so pessimistic!

It'll fly.  Perhaps like a brick and only downwards, but it'll fly! :shock:  

As to my skills - it'll be experience if nothing else.  Sure 'tis only a plane.  How hard can it be?  O:)

Part of the whole plan is that if I build I can get the experience of assessing the requirements to make something fly properly, then it should help when it comes to actually flying it.

[Happy Days]

Ha! Like I said, I admire your adventurousness. :clap:

Good Luck ol’ fruit.

L.Keith

[stephen.shannon]

Hi Angry,

My advice.... If you're going to build is.... Go to traplet.co.uk, pick up a plan and start there with a plane you know will fly, for a little extra they have wood packs with precut parts.

I'm not sure of your background but from experience, and both Keith's will back me up here, you can spend a lot of time and money, including ignoring the missus and end up with, not a whole lot to show for it other than a frustrated head...... Smashed up model and lighter in the pocket.....

The traplet option gives you the best of both worlds. Building yourself and flying what you've built..... They've a couple of really good looking 2m gliders on there that will teach you a load about building and flying.....

The main thing .... Whatever you choose.... Enjoy it

 

Stephen

[billscottni]

I'm sure I can dig through my stuff and find a few tried and tested plans that would be a better starting point.
As Keith says, build something that will definitely fly, fly it, learn a bit about aerodynamics and then design your own

If you pm me your address, I'll dig out a few plans

[jumbo]

Hi AngryMuppet,

As the others have said above I would not advise an original creation for your first build, go with a plan that others have built and flown before. It will still take you an age to complete but at least you can be relatively sure that it will fly when built.

All my first builds where simple electric foamies from free plans and most of them flew. The first few times I went with an original design ended up with me smashing the non flying airframe to bits in frustration.

Also the foam board we get here in Ireland isn't great, if you can find one where the paper peels of easy, this makes it much easier to get clean curved folds. The first ever model I build was the `blu baby` from a free plan on rcgroups. It was an easy build, took about a week and flew lovely (and only cost about €30 in materials) in fact I still fly it sometimes even two years later. It would be a good way to get acquainted  with scratch building before trying to put together a slope soarer (which IMHO need a lot more thought and experience as they are subject to much greater forces).

If you are keen to go with an original model the way I do it is to knock up a very quick FF prototype at a much smaller scale than the RC model and throw it around the back garden tweaking until it glides nicely and only then scaling it up in size and starting the actual build. The nice thing about doing it this way is you have a rough idea if the design is in anyway good or a lemon.

BTW I have your guerilla glue for you. Will bring it the next time I am down at the BIG L (which hopefully is later this month).

[Happy Days]

Here, have a look at this David.

http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=34985

Not too big, banded wings (so in event of a heavy landing the wings separate ) and only £50!

You’d learn a lot from building it, it’s only two channel so only two servos needed, and more to the point you know the model will be flight worthy.

Buy the F.D. a bunch of flowers and ask nicely if she’d let you have it. :wink:  (An Aurora I mean!)

L. Keith

[angry_muppet]

Looks reasonable.

Would I be rubbing before I walked I'd I said I'd prefer the idea of a 3ch?  Having flown a powered trainer on elevator and rudder I found it a little "wallowy" to fly.

There doesn't seem to be much else around that price point.

Having done the calculations on wing loading, I'd need to have a build weight of 140g to achieve 10oz/sqft. I reckon one wing of foam board would be around that! Really isn't looking practical!

[Happy Days]

So, getting fussy are we? :shock:  Okay, how about this little sweetie from the same stable. A tad more expensive but as you seem intent on having ailerons, which I can’t say I blame you,….Very useful for levelling the wings when landing. :wink:


http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=19016

Here’s some gumph from the wholesalers web site (Ripmax)

This West Wings semi-scale model is 1828 mm (72”) wingspan & is intended for radio controlled slope soaring, but prototypes have been bungee launched from flat field sites into strong thermals.

Controls are rudder, elevator and ailerons. The ailerons require micro servo’s built into the wings.

See how good I am to you. Treat you like my own son, so I do. NO!!! You're not included you in my Will.

BTW, I wont ask what it is you  intend “rubbing” before you start walking. :oops:  I’m sure it would be Too Much Information!

Little Keith

[angry_muppet]

BTW, I wont ask what it is you  intend “rubbing” before you start walking. :oops:  I’m sure it would be Too Much Information!

Little Keith

Bloody autocorrect!  :oops:

[angry_muppet]

I think that may be just what is required.

Now, covering isn't included. So what to pick? Obviously something bright and easy to see.

The question is, what type? I see the "shrink" type iron on stuff or fabric. I may need additional equipment such as irons etc, so self build could be a lot more than the £60 for the kit!

Still, should be more satisfying than slapping wings onto a foamie?

[Happy Days]

so self build could be a lot more than the £60 for the kit!

Ever tried buying a set of golf clubs? Or thought of taking up photography for a hobby? How about painting for a pastime?... Do you get my drift…………? :wink:



BTW, as you may know, the Skylark is a scale model, that fact might add even more appeal for you.

Coverings: I am just in the middle of covering some wings of a build I’ve been making for the past year :oops: . To be honest, I recon cheap £10 per roll polyester covering is as good as any. :clap:  (At this point Keith puts his fingers in his ears so as not to be deafened by howls of protest from other modellers :roll: )

And if you ask the Financial Director nicely she might let you use an old electric iron. Assuming it is she who normally does the ironing in your domestic life. Yes a normal electric iron will do the job, it’s just a bit heavy and cumbersome. (Travelling irons are better) (Aero Modellers irons are better still. Probable cost around £25.)

How much covering would you need for a 72” span model? Two 2mtr rolls would do nicely I’d say. Big Bold patterns are what is advisable to maintain orientation when the model is in the sky. :clap:  

You’ll also need a battery, 4cell Ni-Mh around 1200mAh would be more than enough. A couple of servo extension leads for the wing servos, and some lead to balance the model. (Fishing weights are a cheap way of obtaining lead. Just cut a bit off if it is too heavy.) These latter items, along with the covering are not likely to be needed for quite a while though. You’ve got to build the thing first!

so,..........when are you getting it? :?:

L.Keith

[billscottni]

Hobbyking do film for <£10 for a 5m roll and it's OK.
Tesco cheapest iron is about £6, just don't use the steam!

As Keith says, ours can be a relatively cheap hobby compared to many others. Even supporting a football ( :evil: ) team would cost you far more.

[Happy Days]

Hey, Mr. Muppet sir,

Work in progress….What a bloody mess!! :roll:



But if you look closely,…..on the right side of the picture…..underneath the shelf with all the chargers and connecting leads, and above the iron on the bench …..there is the end of a long box.
What’s in the box?

Da Darrr!………………..one West Wings Skylark. :clap:



Purchased in a moment of financial extravagance, (which is most unlike me,  I normally need a general anaesthetic just to get my wallet open, let alone take anything out of it.) I actually started to build this model. …Was it last Christmas, or the Christmas before? I can’t remember. :?:

However, no sooner had I started the build than my beloved Phase 6 took a turn for the worse on Big L and had to be rushed into Intensive Care. :shock:   So the Skylark got hurriedly put back into its box,…..and forgotten about.

The only work that’s been done on the Skylark is the assembly of the first 5 or 6 ribs of one wing half.

You want it? £50 stg.

Little Keith