Author Topic: Kostez  (Read 21135 times)

rasemote

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
    • View Profile
Kostez
« on: October 31, 2011, 09:39:38 AM »
Hello as Spoke about it Fred I open a comment on Kostez not to disturb the comment of the QUARK thierry one or two link for Kostez


http://ludovic07g.blog4ever.com/blog/forum_msg-227569-99251-262149-1.html

http://www.dailymotion.com/rasemote#videoId=xk241s

http://vimeo.com/user4308664

 :D  :D

woodstock

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
Kostez
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2011, 11:16:37 AM »
I'm looking forward to progress on this thread!
Chris van Schoor

Brian

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 181
    • View Profile
Kostez
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2011, 18:17:59 PM »
Hi John/Fred
As a matter of interest what weight are those fuz,, moldings??.
(The ones molded here).

Brian
Serious Power

Fred

  • Slope Soaring is not a crime!
  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5121
  • Gliderist Simplex
    • View Profile
    • http://www.gliderireland.net
Kostez
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2011, 09:19:52 AM »
Hi Brian,
I'll weight mine tonight and let you know.
Education is important, but flying RC planes and gliders is importanter!

Brian

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 181
    • View Profile
Kostez
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2011, 11:13:11 AM »
Hi Fred,
Ok thank you.
Was your one made here or in France ?
If in France maybe somebody can weigh one made here as well.!!??

Brian
Serious Power

Fred

  • Slope Soaring is not a crime!
  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5121
  • Gliderist Simplex
    • View Profile
    • http://www.gliderireland.net
Kostez
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2011, 19:55:44 PM »
Hi Brian,

Weighted mine (made in France of course  :mrgreen: ), and fuselage dry weighted at 1.350kg  :D
Note that to build the Kostez entirely, only 1kg of resine is used!

But once again, that depend what you want. A 4m aerobatic glider don't need to be that light (and you have lots in this range of sizes, like the Alpina etc), but for a VTPR glider, yeah, no other choice!

I think my second fuselage is 1.5kg dry, but to be honest, at this size, a 2kg fuselage is not the end of the World, especially in our slopes and with the type of wind we have.
Education is important, but flying RC planes and gliders is importanter!

JohnPearson

  • ISR Club Member
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 504
    • View Profile
Kostez
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2011, 21:19:49 PM »
Hi Brian/Fred

I weighted my fuselage tonight and it is 3kg. I used a heaver glass cloth than Fred (210g) and I also got extra cloth added to areas for strengh ( nose, tail, thin area of fuselage in front of the fin, and also where the wing tubes will be located. If I can kept the model under 10kg (4.5m wing span) I will be happy.
I could have made it lighter, however, with poor landing areas on most of the slopes we fly off, a lighter model would not last to long with my standard of flying :oops:

Brian

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 181
    • View Profile
Kostez
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2011, 21:24:10 PM »
Hi Fred,
Thank you.
Do you know the wing area ??
I ask because I am working (early stage) on an own design 3m aerobat !!
It is something that I have had in mind for a number of years now and seeing the Kostez brought it back to mind.

Brian
Serious Power

Fred

  • Slope Soaring is not a crime!
  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5121
  • Gliderist Simplex
    • View Profile
    • http://www.gliderireland.net
Kostez
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2011, 08:44:04 AM »
Hi Brian,
No, no ideas, just it's big!  :D
I'll check that tonight, but you can't really compare the Kostez to a 3m WS glider. My 3meters Quark is big, but compared to the Kostez, looks like a hlg  :lol:

John, 3Kg seems "normal" weight for this size  :D
Education is important, but flying RC planes and gliders is importanter!

Brian

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 181
    • View Profile
Kostez
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2011, 09:39:21 AM »
Hi Guy's,
Thank you.
I know it is not really the same.
However I have some experience of 1.5 to 2m aerobats .
I think if I can get the area right (small cord changes at a span make a big difference) for the right weight I can do do something 'new' that will fly 'big' at a size that is reasonable to handle/ carry /launch/transport etc !!.
Wing loading is wing loading !!!
I have had an idea for a fuz for a long time so we will see !.

Brian
Serious Power

Fred

  • Slope Soaring is not a crime!
  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5121
  • Gliderist Simplex
    • View Profile
    • http://www.gliderireland.net
Kostez
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2011, 10:06:53 AM »
Hi Brian,

Looking forward to it  :clap:  :D
Education is important, but flying RC planes and gliders is importanter!

Brian

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 181
    • View Profile
Kostez
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2011, 22:37:26 PM »
Hi John/Fred,
I'm just sticking down a few thoughts/figures for reference.
My understanding of a 'good' VTPR model is that it should be light, whatever that is ???.
The French Kostez's are 7.5/8 kg.
On the RCG thread they said they were 60g/dm\2.
My Voltij (all glass-heavy'ish) is 46g/dm\2 @ 1.65kg for a 2m.It flies good but needs some air.
The Limande is approx 40g/dm\2.
It is likely that there is a threshold wing loading where these planes go from being good (agile/lively/efficient with good energy retention) to being not so.
I have no idea where that threshold might be.
We have to be careful about adding weight for strength as the weight can become the source of the problem, eg for landing.
At an impact the energy involved is a multiple of the weight and the speed  -  ironically the heavier the wing loading the faster the landing/impact (normally/as a rule).

I am going to aim for 45 to 50g/dm\2.

Brian
Serious Power

Fred

  • Slope Soaring is not a crime!
  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5121
  • Gliderist Simplex
    • View Profile
    • http://www.gliderireland.net
Kostez
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2011, 07:41:11 AM »
Hi Brian,

Wing loading is only one thing to be taken into account for a VTPR capable machine (for info, the Brittany machines are below 40g/dm2).
Static moment, profile etc etc is as important, and that's the difference between an aerobatic glider, and a VTPR glider.
Education is important, but flying RC planes and gliders is importanter!

Brian

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 181
    • View Profile
Kostez
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2011, 09:19:12 AM »
Hi Fred,
I am just trying to explore this subject a little bit more - for me and for other pilots that have an interest.

By static moment do you mean tail plane position relative to wing cord - ie; tail moment ??. If so do they have longer than normal or shorter than normal gliders.

So the Kostez at 60g/dm\2 plus is 'outside' the normal wing loading for VTPR. I know it is big and that weight does not scale up pro-rata with size.

Brian
Serious Power

Fred

  • Slope Soaring is not a crime!
  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5121
  • Gliderist Simplex
    • View Profile
    • http://www.gliderireland.net
Kostez
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2011, 09:50:49 AM »
Hi Brian,

Not to sure how to translate that, but that would be the fuselage moment (by itself), basically where in the fuselage the most lift is generated. not to be compared with were the stability is most generated (usually at the CofG of course)
Position is critical if you want a glider that perform well on knife edge (without much, or in theory without rudder input), and is about 15 to 25% from fuselage nose (just look at all the proper vtpr glider fuselages), the tail of the fuselage generating almost no lift (your fuselage tail can be a stick, that will not change much the knife edge performances)

Then, you need to select a good profile that will work at the correct Re number you are looking for, but most specificly for VTPR, a profile that will work well in no air speed (able to do a roll with no airspeed for exemple). You can have a look at the TP series, and of course, the good old SBs. All these profiles work with a certain size of ailerons etc etc

Anyway, all that is only computer theory, you will never match the speadsheets performances of a profile etc with a build, even Boeing don't pretend that, but the goal is to get as close as possible to the "perfect" recipient. As Dassault says, if it looks good, it will fly right!  :D

On another note, I think lots of experts are talking about VTPR gliders lately (seems to have been discovered only a year or two ago...) but most, if not all the gliders they choose, compare etc, are barely VTPR gliders in the true sense of the term.
But they are great aerobatic machines. VTPR is another league, another way of flying altogether. I flew / tested tons of aerobatic gliders, but flying a glider truly designed for VTPR, is totally a different world by just the way the machine fly and react to your inputs.
Almost all aerobatic gliders can do a roll at wingspan altitude from the slope... But a handfull will do it at zero speed! I think this is the simpliest way to describe these machines.
Education is important, but flying RC planes and gliders is importanter!