Author Topic: West Wings Skylark build thread  (Read 64144 times)

angry_muppet

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West Wings Skylark build thread
« on: February 05, 2015, 19:50:52 PM »
Evening all...

After finally getting around to placing the necessary order with HK and collecting the kit from Little Keith, I'm ready to start building.  I have read the instructions (honest) thrice and am as ready to jump in feet first as I could possibly be.

Kitchen table is a no-go zone for the good lady of the house who is surprisingly encouraging...  I wonder is she wanting me to head off to the slopes and give her head peace?

Anyway...  First question...  For the construction of said aircraft, which adhesive is best for each section?  I have CA and kicker, 30 min epoxy and generic wood glue.  I wouldn't have thought that CA would be particularly effective for fuse joints?

Happy Days

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Re: West Wings Skylark build thread
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2015, 16:08:56 PM »
Quote from: "angry_muppet"


Kitchen table is a no-go zone for the good lady of the house who is surprisingly encouraging..


Oh, don't worry ,...that wont last long

Well, if none of the other old farts who normally contribute to this forum are going to answer you David, you’ll have to put up with my tupence worth.

From purely personal experience I’d say…………

Epoxy glue has the advantage of forming a very strong bond, when it’s been mixed properly. A lot of epoxies come is paste form. Araldite is one such brand. When mixing these type of glue it’s important to make sure that all of the hardner has come into contact with all of the glue. I find this is best done by using a sort of “squashing” motion and to mix the two parts for at least one minute before attempting to use the glue on a joint.
Anyway as far as gluing ability,… good quality epoxies form very strong, although generally rather ‘hard’ bonds with little or no ‘give‘. This type of glue is also a bit on the heavy side when used in large amounts compared to the other two types you mentioned.

Cyanoacrylate glues, (CA, or ‘super’ glues) also come in different qualities. Particularly when used in conjunction with an activator they make for extremely fast assembly of model planes. That’s their plus side. The downside, in my experience, is that although thin CA tends to ’wicker’ into the wood to obtain a very good grip, the joint itself has a tendency to be rather brittle. The other downside is that I found it’s very easy to end up using a lot of this type of glue on models, probably because it wickers into the wood and doesn’t look like there is enough glue at the joint to do the job, thereby using a lot of the glue which costs more money and adds weight of the model.

PVA or ‘White’ wood glue. This is a good all round wood glue. It tends to take about thirty minutes to an hour to set, preferably leave it for a couple of hours before stressing it. This type of glue also allows a little bit of ‘give’ when the joint is placed under stress.

So, of these three types what do you use? You asked about glues for the fuselage. I’d suggest it depends of the design of the fuse. If it’s a ‘built up’ fuse,( In the same way as the wings are Built Up on your model,) with longerons being held in position with formers at various points down the fuse, then probably CA would do the job fine.
If the sides of the fuse are made of sheet lite-ply then I’d use PVA to secure the longerons in place, as this will be a long continual joint.
(See picture)

A = Lite ply ( Used for the sides of the Fuse on some models)
B = Triangular section longeron, used to stiffen the side of the Lite-Ply fuselage.

So what do you think of that David?…….David? DAVID! Wake up!!
Try not to run out of airspeed, altitude and ideas....... all at the same time.

andrew wallace

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West Wings Skylark build thread
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2015, 21:02:42 PM »
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:
When it comes to building I always use white glue and 5 minute epoxy where needed, cyano for a quick fix  :D
i\'m an ordinary man nothing special nothing grand

EI1638

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« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2015, 22:03:58 PM »
What Fred said.

Personally I find white glue (Titebond) best for most things, CA when I'm in a hurry and epoxy for strength. I did see titebond in McQuillans in Blanchardstown recently

Epoxy will eventually generate a negative reaction if you are not careful.
The concensus is 'when', rather than 'if'. I use nitrile gloves when I use it.
Soap and water is the recommended method for washing it off, rather than any solvent (acetone), but the best recommendation is to avoid getting it on your skin entirely.

I have a love hate relastionship with cyano, I love the way it sticks and I hate the way it sticks to me. I also really dislike the aroma. I know of at least one aeromodeller who has no sense of smell as a result of overuse of cyano.

Chris

angry_muppet

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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2015, 15:55:34 PM »
Thanks all. Started the build with CA as I can't find the wood glue... That'd be about par for me!

I've the two sides of the fuse frame built using CA and was going to fix the bracing struts with 30 min epoxy.

Taking Keith's suggestion, I'll have a hunt for the wood glue and use that for the wings as I'd assume they're most likely to flex (yank 'n' bank merchant).

angry_muppet

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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2015, 21:19:36 PM »
Progress so far...



I really need to sort out getting the plans pulled out straight...  The folds keep rising and knocking the elevator parts over.  Such are the little niggles that you start to find, I suppose!

Thanks Keith for the discourse on the merits of glues.  I didn't fall asleep reading it, honestly!  If work docs haven't done that, then I'm ok with hobby stuff.

As you can see, I've started one thing and then moved on to another and then gone back...  Fuse sides just need the bracing bits glued in and then they're done.  I think that perhaps I'll sort the tail plane next and do the wings last.In some respects, they're what keep it in the air, so I want that to benefit from the build experience of the rest.

But then, a square fuse and correctly assembled tail plane and empennage will make it controllable!     :!:

EI1638

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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2015, 21:54:49 PM »
For small drawings like yours an iron(!) is very helpful. With low heat and on a smooth surface carefully iron your plans out. Go over the creases a few times to straighten them out.

If you can, roll them up when you're finished the build, so you don't have the same problem next time...

Whilst I'm not brave enough to borrow 'the bosses' iron I have my own heavy 'antique' electric iron that works very well for smoothing plans out.
The iron must be at least 40 years old, from an era long before steam irons.

Happy Days

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« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2015, 10:14:59 AM »
Brilliant! “That’s the way y’ do it!” You’ll build this in no time at this rate David.

I must say I’ve seem some things used to hold plans in place,……but a cheese grater?!!! :shock:  Oh well, whatever floats y’boat I s’pose..

Whenever I build I have a tendency to get a bit over enthusiastic and zoom ahead of myself…..only to find that I ended up doing something wrong. Then I have to go back, undo what I’d done wrong, and re build from that point onward. I found that the motto,  “Read (instructions) twice - glue once.” works well. Sometimes I tend to speed read, and miss-read the instructions. I read “Do……such & such a thing,” when the instructions actually said “Don’t do ……” Then I get frustrated with myself and kick the dog…… (For dog read canine. I wouldn’t want anyone to think I meant the wife.) (Just thought I’d add that for Justin’s benefit. :lol: )

Little Keith
Try not to run out of airspeed, altitude and ideas....... all at the same time.

angry_muppet

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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2015, 10:49:55 AM »
Should've gone to SpecSavers Keith!

That's not a cheese grater, it's a metal coffee tin!  :o

Happy Days

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« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2015, 10:53:53 AM »
:lol:  :lol:

(Bugger  :evil:  :evil: )
Try not to run out of airspeed, altitude and ideas....... all at the same time.

Fred

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West Wings Skylark build thread
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2015, 07:38:41 AM »
Good morning (I'm back :) )

Good start of the build!  :clap:
As for glue, another tip.

When in a "hurry", I use white glue, with a few dots of CA. You get the best of both world!
Instant grab, and tough bond :)
Education is important, but flying RC planes and gliders is importanter!

angry_muppet

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« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2015, 20:26:27 PM »
Well, after a hiatus, I've got back building.

But, I seem to have an issue...  I don't think the instructions and the plans tally; and I followed the plans...

The plans say to build the tail plane from 6 x 4.5mm balsa - the instructions seem to suggest 3mm.  I now need 6 x 4.5mm to build the vertical stabiliser.  Options are to either buy another length or cut out the trailing edge and replace with 3mm?



And for the hawk eyes among you, I seem to have glued the horn in back to front...  I assume that would drastically impede the "pitch up" control authority.  Question is, what's the easiest and cleanest way of turning it around?

Happy Days

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« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2015, 20:32:54 PM »
Feeling frustrated David? I know that feeling very well. I’ve made similar mistakes a thousand times,…….well a few hundred perhaps,….certainly a couple of dozen times anyway…… :roll:

First thing to remember is not to panic…..panic is the enemy! You’ll learn a lot from these little “errors.” :wink:

As far as the elevator horn is concerned, leave it as it is if I were you. Provided it’s not going to impede the operation of the elevator or anything else it’s not worth the effort of changing it around.

As for the 6x4.5 balsa. The plans are normally drawn to scale, so if the tail needed 6x4.5 then only that size of wood should fit onto the plans exactly. Where as 3mm wood would have been too small to exactly fit over the diagram on the plans.

I think it might be a good idea to move onto a different part of the plane and try building that. If it turns out at the end you are short of lots of pieces of wood you can make a bulk order for some extra pieces. Or you can order some more 6x4.5 now.  I’m not sure of suppliers in Ireland,…Balsa Cabin in UK would certainly have what you need, but it might be expensive to ship such a small amount over. (Hence my suggestion to finish as much of the build as you can first.)

I have to say, having built quite a few kits, I’ve never yet found a kit maker that didn’t supply enough wood of the correct type to complete the model…I suspect you’ve read something wrong somewhere. It can be very easy to “speed read” something in a hurry to get on with the build so that you read something which says do such & such a thing, but the instructions actually say DON’T do such & such a thing.

Above all else, don’t give up.
Many years ago I was talking to a man who worked on the Apollo moon mission. He told me that when NASA started out with the intention of putting a man on the moon they had no idea how many problems they would face. But they knew there could only be a finite number of them. So all they had to do was to keep solving the problems as & when they came up. And when they solved the final problem, Neil Armstrong made his famous declaration about “One small step for man….”

Just keep working at it David, and when you’ve solved the final problem that Skylark will fly.
Try not to run out of airspeed, altitude and ideas....... all at the same time.

angry_muppet

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« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2015, 21:34:36 PM »
The craft shop in Enniscorthy, or the one in Wexford, both have a small amount of balsa. I've continued on with the right wing which now has all the ribs in place.  Hopefully, tomorrow I'll get a bit more done.

The telling thing will be if it all stays together in the air!

Happy Days

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« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2015, 21:56:53 PM »
Quote from: "angry_muppet"


The telling thing will be if it all stays together in the air!


And wont you feel proud of yourself when it does! :D
Try not to run out of airspeed, altitude and ideas....... all at the same time.