Author Topic: Glider wing mod and reinforcement  (Read 16187 times)

skyhawk newbie

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Glider wing mod and reinforcement
« on: October 27, 2010, 11:56:14 AM »
As a newbie..........  :oops:

Just wondering what you guys do to reinforce your glider wings ....

If you fit a carbon fiber spar how long it is and what diameter ...
do you use a flat or round spar...
where about in the wing do you fit it ...


Regards Sean
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Aidan

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Re: Glider wing mod and reinforcement
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2010, 12:14:22 PM »
Quote from: "skyhawk newbie"
As a newbie..........  :oops:

Just wondering what you guys do to reinforce your glider wings ....

If you fit a carbon fiber spar how long it is and what diameter ...
do you use a flat or round spar...
where about in the wing do you fit it ...


Regards Sean

I think the answer to that would have to be "It depends...."
It's very difficult to give a general answer.

Why are you reinforcing the wing? Is it a repair, to handle extra power due to your new power system or are you trying to make it crash proof?

Crash proofness is pretty much impossible to achieve with anything but very small planes or by making the plane from flexible material (typically EPP). Often the extra weight and stiffness added by reinforcements has the opposite of the planned effect and just makes the plane more likely to break. Weight can also make it harder to fly so a crash is more likely too!

For a wing with a single spar, that spar will normally be at or near the thickest part of the wing to maximise the stiffness it provides. This also puts it near the point on the wing chord (an imaginary line from the leading edge to trailing edge) where the result of the combined aerodynamic forces appears to act which means aerodynamic loads in flight are less likely to cause twisting of the wing around the spar.

The length will depend entirly on the purpose and the wing you're adding the spar to.

A tube provides torsional stiffness (resistance to twisting) as well as resisting bending loads. A strip positioned vertically will be good for preventing vertical bending (which is what you get from lift) but not very good for bending forward and back or torsion. If these aren't needed because it's already stiff enough then a strip is a good option.

Aidan

billscottni

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Glider wing mod and reinforcement
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2010, 12:32:13 PM »
As Aidan says, need more info.

Size of wing, length and mean chord.
What the wing is made of. Type of construction, (open rib, Foam).
What type of flying was it designed for and what do you want it to do now that needs more strength?

skyhawk newbie

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Glider wing mod and reinforcement
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2010, 18:04:58 PM »
The SkyHawk glider that I've got..
 http://cgi.ebay.com/New-4Ch-RTF-RC-EP-Aerobatic-TW742-SkyHawk-Glider-Plane_W0QQitemZ290326804731QQcategoryZ19164QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5078401181636134857

The wing is 115.5cm or 45 1/2 " in length, chord is 21.5cm or 8 1/2"
and made of foam......


The wing has a very narrow channel where a wooden connector  rod  (about 4" long ) sits inside a plastic housing. I would like to place a carbon fiber rod there, but I am not sure whether to make  it go all the way to the end of the wing or just 12" or so.  The wing is basicly screwed together with a square-ish piece of  plastic that holds the ailaron servo in place,
I'm thinking of removing the plastic connector and epoxy a  aluminum plate instead, as I'm going to fit twin servos for the ailaron..
Then lay a piece of carbonfiber rod, about 1ft long along where the wooden rod was on the wing and epoxy the carbon fiber rod in and then run some tape over  it.....

Would this work.....
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Happy Days

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« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2010, 18:30:26 PM »
They say a picture paints a thousand words Sean :D

You might like to get your camera out and post a few pictures of what you want to do….?

(Just going back to what Aidan said, you can’t make them crash proof without making them much heavier and more difficult to fly! :!: )

K.
Try not to run out of airspeed, altitude and ideas....... all at the same time.

skyhawk newbie

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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2010, 18:50:30 PM »
Yeah.. Will defo get some photos up,so you'll know what I mean...

mite take a few days....
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skyhawk newbie

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« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2010, 14:08:38 PM »
Here a few photos of the new wing....

This photp shows how the wing looks , when put together ,
with the connector rod and the black crappy thin plastic that holds the servo in place ( no servo fited yet ) as I'm gona fit 2 servos into each wing half..



This shows the wooden connector...



This is where it sits in the other wing...



See where the wooden connector is...I wana remove that and fit a carbon fiber spar there instead...But how long ??? 12 " or the whole length of the wing...Where the servo mounting sits,I'll fit a thin Alloy plate...





Regards
Sean
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Happy Days

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« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2010, 14:51:17 PM »
Okay Sean,…….firstly let me tell you that those strange black & white circular signs are where the centre of gravity  (balance point) should be.

 That wooden connector is know as the ‘wing joiner’.

Now a couple of questions: :?

Why do you want to replace the wooden wing joiner?

Although it may have been a “slip of the tongue” but you said that you want to fit 2 servos in each wing half. (4 servos in all in the wing?) Did you mean that? :?:  (Are you looking to produce what’s called a full house wing, with flaps and ailerons.)

Sorry about this but until we know what you’re trying to achieve there could be one of a dozen different answers to you questions.

Keith

(You’re on a steep learning curve, and doing very well! :clap: )
Try not to run out of airspeed, altitude and ideas....... all at the same time.

Happy Days

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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2010, 21:57:45 PM »
a.
Try not to run out of airspeed, altitude and ideas....... all at the same time.

skyhawk newbie

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« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2010, 22:25:27 PM »
Quote from: "Happy Days"
Okay Sean,…….firstly let me tell you that those strange black & white circular signs are where the centre of gravity  (balance point) should be.

 That wooden connector is know as the ‘wing joiner’.

Now a couple of questions: :?

Why do you want to replace the wooden wing joiner?

Although it may have been a “slip of the tongue” but you said that you want to fit 2 servos in each wing half. (4 servos in all in the wing?) Did you mean that? :?:  (Are you looking to produce what’s called a full house wing, with flaps and ailerons.)

Sorry about this but until we know what you’re trying to achieve there could be one of a dozen different answers to you questions.

Keith

(You’re on a steep learning curve, and doing very well! :clap: )

Well if your gona do it , do it right the fist time...

Hi Keith

 The reason I wana replace the wooden wing joiner and black crappy plastic ,
is because I've read ( on a USofA Flying forum there was old review (2007) of the SkyHawk Glider )
 that the wing will flex or snap in the middle where the join is,in tight aerobatic turns....
So I'd like to sort this out before I get that far.....

Sorry "slip of the tongue"
what I ment was fit 2 servos for the ailerons..
one for each side...

Regards Sean
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Happy Days

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« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2010, 23:41:59 PM »
I note that you are reading from an old review (2007) and I’m thinking that the model you have now might have been modified (improved) since then.

Looking at the set up you have,  I can’t imagine that wooden wing joiner snapping in flight. I suspect what was more likely to have happened is that either the wing joiner, (in the right hand wing) or the wing joiner socket, (in the left hand wing) became un-glued and allowed the wing to “Butterfly” in a tight turn or when coming out of a steep dive.
Provided the existing wing joiner in your model is glued in properly I’d have thought it would be strong enough.

Whilst I take your point of wanting to “solve the problem before it becomes a problem :clap: ” I think I’d be inclined to fly it as it is. After all, it’s likely to be a little while before you’re pulling high G‘s.

May be some other forum members would have some thoughts on this matter.

K.
Try not to run out of airspeed, altitude and ideas....... all at the same time.

skyhawk newbie

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« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2010, 12:25:30 PM »
Here a few photos of what I'm planing to do...


Replace the foam ailerons with some balsa one's I've made
 they'll be stronger as I wana fit servos for each aileron,
fit a thin (1mm)alloy plate where the black plastic one was...
Apoxy 2 hollow 4mm carbon fiber rod's front and rear of the servos..






As for the fuse...

Replace the thin metal push rods ( that bend  javascript:emoticon(':cry:')  ) with some Gold-n-Rod,These will prevent tail pushrods from bending. When the pushrod bends, it does not break, but it stops controlling.
Will allso add a wire guide positioned midway between the fuse pushrod slots and the tail.....






What do you think   ?????

Not bad for a newbie....    

 :lol:
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skyhawk newbie

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« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2010, 08:27:53 AM »
Anybody......

I'm not gona do anything to the wing
untill I get a go ahead....
yeah you could do that  or
No don't do it......

I've all ready wrecked one wing ,
by doing my own DIY mod  :oops:    ...
and not asking enough questions first  :!:

So now I'm down to
3x fuse and 2x wings off a TW-742 SkyHawk...



Sean
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skyhawk newbie

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« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2010, 09:35:35 AM »
Quote from RC Groups.com about the TW-742 SkyHawk.....


I actually have a little experience with these. My dad bought one and I put it together, trimmed out and test flew it for a bit before handing it over to him. I actually thought it went pretty well for a cheapy. Not fast, and didn't climb ridiculously fast but was quite ok. flew for about 12-14 min in still air with supplied NiMh battery and a couple of 25+ min thermal flights in not particularly strong lift. I was happy enough with it that I got one for a friend who wanted a cheap intro into RC gliding. He's had a blast with it, and it's proved a lot tougher than you'd imagine. We haven't DS'ed it yet.
The first mods you should do are make a better wing joiner (ply is good) and glue the halves together, reinforce the TE where the rubber bands go (to save the foam) a bit of thin plastic or something will do. A few strips of BiDi TESA tape on the bottom of the wing and around the LE (cover the BiDi with coloured tape to keep UV at bay) Replace all the servos with HXT500/900, the originals are embarrasing. Ditch the center aileron servo and fit a seperate servo for each aileron. Make sure the pushrod ends are fitted properly. It'll fly fine with just the center servo but seperate ones are a lot nicer. About 45 min work so far
See how it goes, then think about upgrading the power system.
It slope soars just fine. I don't think you'll be too disappointed for the money it cost you.
Good luck,
simon... "Quote"      


What is BiDi TESA..Can you get it in Ireland ??


Sean
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Happy Days

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« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2010, 10:12:51 AM »
Joining the wing halves to form a single wing piece sounds a good idea. Replacing the servos also seems advisable, most RTF models have cheap twitchy servos supplied.
I’d stick with a single aileron servo, as fitting two has no advantage that I can see and only adds weight and complexity. :evil:

Keep an eye on the models’ All Up Weight, (AUW) Sean. The more weight, ….the harder to fly the model will become.  I believe 600grms is the designed AUW for your plane.

You will also need a supply of  rubber bands for the wing…………they are always breaking.

Afraid I’ve never heard of BiDi Tesa, :?:  I suspect it could be a type of fibre reinforcing tape………..but I’m not sure.

Good Luck,

Keith
Try not to run out of airspeed, altitude and ideas....... all at the same time.