Mini Toons type close-in aerobatics sloper

[Aidan]

I'm curious if anyone's been flying small aerobatic gliders like the Mini Toons or Le Fish etc. These could be fun for occasional glider fun fly competitions (Limbo, all up inverted racing, etc.)

I was thinking of building something along these lines probably around 50" from EPP or urethane foam with carbon/balsa/ply as required.

Just a thought!

Aidan

[Fred]

Hi Aidan,

Funny you talk about VTPR gliders!
I tried to find time to put one of my plan/design available to download (Designed in 2008, but found out 3 weeks ago that it has been "stolen" amongst others... And no, not a Chinese company! So, better put that one for free here   )

It's bigger than 50" but I can reduce it.

I'll put a view tomorrow.

[Happy Days]

Last summer I was talking to Joe, (and others) about building a 4 axis flyer.

I was originally thinking of a Madslide but finally settled on the idea of a mini Tune.

I think they sound like a lot of fun.  Like you, I was thinking it would probably be best to build a foamie so it could take the knocks.

Bill made a Madslide but bashed it up earlier this year I believe.

Keith

[Richard Boyd]

Great idea gents !
I have built 2  depron Swingers and they are fun buy lack a few important things for me !
1 being they are not robust ,
2 I still find the design wrong for knife edge flight !

I am interest in seeing Freds design,

Richard

[Fred]

Good morning everyone  
Ok, so, here you go, 2 screenshots of what I did 2 years ago :





The size of the design was for a 1.8m glider, all foam, with a nice spar system for the wings and elevator (everything can be removed for transport, and take no space at all).
Fuselage is 1.3m long.
Did the same, but 2.5m WS. The fuselage was massive!

I have the files for the cnc cutting machine, but that can be resized to any size anyway, but big like that, is kind of cool!    And that was to change from the smaller vtpr style foam machines out there.

Profile was choice of a TP, or the good old SB96/VS, or anything you want (flat sides where the wings seats).

I've also made the same one with wingeron, and also a 4 servo wings... Everything is do-able.

If some of you are interrested, I can print the plan or give you the files (I think some cnc foam machine are under used     ). Can be a nice group project  

[Aidan]

Great idea gents !
I have built 2  depron Swingers and they are fun buy lack a few important things for me !
1 being they are not robust ,
2 I still find the design wrong for knife edge flight !

I am interest in seeing Freds design,

Richard

Hi Richard,

Yeah, I had look at the Swinger a little while back and considered building one but I don't think it's exactly what I'm after, mostly because I don't think it would last long! Depron could be handy for making a quick prototype but I reckon it's worth going to a wire cut wing for a decent airfoil. EPP or even urethane foam would be much more robust.

I'd done a few drawings for a possible design but hadn't got a final version yet. I'm thinking anything smaller than say 1.1m is going to be poor for energy retention and efficiency (even for this sort of flying). I was looking at about 1.3m (50") but that might still be a little on the small side.

Aidan

[Aidan]

Good morning everyone  
Ok, so, here you go, 2 screenshots of what I did 2 years ago :





The size of the design was for a 1.8m glider, all foam, with a nice spar system for the wings and elevator (everything can be removed for transport, and take no space at all).
Fuselage is 1.3m long.
Did the same, but 2.5m WS. The fuselage was massive!

I have the files for the cnc cutting machine, but that can be resized to any size anyway, but big like that, is kind of cool!    And that was to change from the smaller vtpr style foam machines out there.

Profile was choice of a TP, or the good old SB96/VS, or anything you want (flat sides where the wings seats).

I've also made the same one with wingeron, and also a 4 servo wings... Everything is do-able.

If some of you are interrested, I can print the plan or give you the files (I think some cnc foam machine are under used     ). Can be a nice group project  

I like it Fred! :clap:

Very similar to what I had in mind except for the size. The all-moving tail featured in my drawings too. I'm starting to think you're right about going a bit bigger.
If there are a few people interested in making these we could certainly get a few sets of cores cut together. I was going to dust off the hot-wire and cut my own set of cores but it's not a job I like and I'd be using templates and a manual bow - so less accurate and less consistent. Anyone got a CNC hot-wire or know somewhere to get it done?

Fred - I reckon the wingeron version would be more vulnerable to "ground contact"? I'd rather go with a 2 or 4 servo conventional wing for durability and so we can use camber change for light lift and for elevator mixing in aerobatics. Which did you like best?

Aidan

[Happy Days]

Joe has a cnc wire cutter …………(ask me how I know).

Er,…. Joeseph,……….oh Joeseph,………come out of hiding now, it’s time to play!

[Fred]

Thanks Aidan (and sorry for the late reply to the post  :oops: )

Haven't flown the prototype much, as it was all in light foam, and too light in my taste (no energy retention or good penetration in wind). The wingeron one was demoniac, especially combined with the full flying elevator with almost 90 degrees movement! Did not noticed it was more fragile, but I used big servos at the time (10kg, full metal), but haven't flew it long enough to know anyway.

Aileron one was good too, but only had a few flights at the local slope. I may have photos of the completed model somewhere  :?:

Anyway, I'm in for another one!
Keith, I think Joe is busy this week end (Electric Picnic), not sure after that  :?:  (Joooeeeeee ?)

So, who have EPP ? Group order for the blocks ?  

[Happy Days]

I’m in for a 1.8m wing version.

I’m thinking;  these planes are gonna almost certainly be hitting the ground at some point so would not a single piece fuse be stronger than a two piece one?

OOHHH, this is exciting. They might even be ready for the autumn gales! Oh woopee!!

Keith

[Fred]

Hey Keith,

Sorry no, the 2 piece fuselage was for the cutting company. They are then glued together (was to fit in a standard EPP block).

Who have EPP ? Where ? How ? What ??  :mrgreen:

[Aidan]

Thanks Aidan (and sorry for the late reply to the post  :oops: )

You should be sorry... Over 12hrs!  :wink:

...........Anyway, I'm in for another one!
Keith, I think Joe is busy this week end (Electric Picnic), not sure after that  :?:  (Joooeeeeee ?)

So, who have EPP ? Group order for the blocks ?  

I'm in for one (I'll check with Eanna - he might be interested too). 1.8m sounds good to me, or anything in the 1.5 to 2m range.
What aerofoil? How about TP42 root, TP29 tip?
http://tracfoil.free.fr/airfoils/t.htm
I haven't looked at these in any detail but they should be very suitable for this type and size of plane.

Aidan

P.S.
The only EPP I have is a little bit of sheet for indoor planes. Where can blocks be got?

[billscottni]

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Foams4u-DIRECT_EPP-BLOCKS-AND-SHEETS_W0QQ_fsubZ1902434015QQ_sidZ824797015QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322

EPP block and sheet

There's also a company in S. Wales called Linpac who sell it. Fred may know of some European sellers.

I hope to have my CNC foamcutter running in the next month or so :?:

[Fred]

Thanks for the link Bill.
I know a few EPP dealers, I check for prices and sheet sizes.

So, to make sure, who would be interrested in an EPP VTPR thingy model ? (the one above, or another one... I have the plan for the Minitoon, Padawan (82cm WS though... But I can enlarge it...))

[Happy Days]

Fred,
Put me down for one of the models in the first plan you’ve shown on this thread with  4 servo 1.8mtr span wing please

K.